help with new BBk ---- please! - Page 2

micco · 06-19-2017, 12:26 PM

update time....the egr system was T piped to the vacuum to the intake. So i blocked off the egr side.
Upgraded the rollers to 8g.

So the scoot is peppier now...BUT smokes like i'm fogging for mosquitoes.
I hope my rings aren't shot, b/c it really looks like oil is blowing by. Smoking under load and idle.... :(

Thoughts?

sc00ter · 06-19-2017, 10:48 PM

To rich would be my guess. Do a plug chop (Moped Army has a great how-to) and see what color it is. Compression test would be next. Find out what ballpark your compression is supposed to be. You can "borrow/rent" a compression tester from a better auto parts store. They love to leak during testing so make sure all connections are snug. Soapy water is your friend. The original compression reading would have been you data point, but to late for that. Its out there somewhere on the Web. You checked the valve clearance and made sure the timing was correct so Im not thinking that. If it was sudden (the fog affect) you could have a bad float or the choke got stuck, but not really thinking choke. If it was sudden you may have jumped a tooth? Does the bbk use the same spark plug heat range as original cylinder? Same reach spark plug? Check if the spark plug gap is correct also. Thats all I can think of for now off the top of my head.

micco · 06-20-2017, 09:43 AM

great points, again.

I switched back to the original cylinder head last night, still smokes - but i did get rid of that rattle sound. Might have been the emissions tube vibrating against the valve cover...

I reused the same plug, NGK and its black with some deposits on in.

Since its smokes right off the start, that wouldn't be the main jet i swapped, correct?

I'm really thinking its the rings, as its smoking much much more then it did at first, and the smoke has a white/blueish tint.
I didn't file the rings down during install; i read somewhere you need to...maybe my bad?

There's a tomos nitro 150cc for sale, which i might just buy, rather then spending time on this project :(

sc00ter · 06-20-2017, 11:53 AM

We have never filed rings before but know others who have. If I were to bet on what I think it is-float in carb bowl. Did you remove the bowl on the carb? If so, I bet you may have accidentally knocked the float out of adjustment. Common mistake and kinda easy to check the float height. Check the compression. That will tell you if the cylinder is at proper compression and tell you if there is a ring issue or if its something else non-compression related. Now, about the Nitro 150. You going to tag and insure it or swap the motor into your current 50cc? I have a 200cc Burgman for my main ride and play around with the 50cc for a hobby. If you tag and insure the Nitro then you can take your time and figure out the bbk kit. Learning is power, so dont give up on the bbk until you at least figure it out first. Anyways, do a compression test first and if that looks about right (info is out there, forgot what the Zuma bbk kit was) then check the float height.

micco · 06-21-2017, 02:43 PM

i did remove the bowl to change the main jet. If it was the float, wouldn't the gas be pouring out the overflow?

I ended up get the nitro 150 - shes much much faster then the 50 (obviously).
I plan to insure it as is and it being my primary.

I've not given up on the bbk!!! stubborn like that

sc00ter · 06-22-2017, 12:03 PM

Carb tuning is fun, and not always in a good way! The float can do other weird things if damaged that does not involve flooding out the carb. Choke circuit not working correct (did you unplug it and plug it back in?) can do fun things also. We go manual choke conversions to take that out of the equation. So you bought the Nitro 150, COOL! It's also SYM built and is a quality product. Parts can sometimes be a little tricky but once you find a good place that knows their stuff all will be good. I used Ooty's when I had my SYM CityCom 300i. Great place to deal with. Now take your time and get that bbk worked out. That scooter could be a loaner for a significant other to go riding with you. My wife is considering tackling the Adly (she's not comfortable on 2 wheels) just to learn it. She will go riding with us scooter riders sometimes and its pretty funny. Got a long line of scooters and a Can-Am Spyder taking up the rear with the hazards on!

micco · 06-23-2017, 11:34 AM

thanks, i dont' recall being rough with the float, but i'll check again. I did unplug the auto choke to take the carb out, i'll double check the connection there as well.

Ya so far i'm happy with the nitro 150, the confidence to accelerate is nice, and fun!
Almost as fun as my previous CBR600 :P

Sounds like you guys have a fun scooting community out there.
I'm thinking of giving the 150 a tune up, as i don't know the last time it was done.

Any suggestions on Oil and plug?
Google wasn't much help and just confused me on the oil front (almost a religious battle on what to use and whats better).

On the look out for a service manual for this.
cheers

sc00ter · 06-24-2017, 01:10 AM

In my youger days I had a MODDED 1994 CBR90RR and almost ended up picking up soap for bigger and stronger men on weekends! I narrowly escape jail and quit riding motorcycles for a loooong time. Then I had a Honda Hawk NTV650 punched up to 750. It wasn't the fastest thing by any means but it went round corners like it was on rails. Blew a head gasket and did some damage so I junked it. If I get the urge for something bigger I wold consider a Yamaha T-Max. Always wanted one but Yamaha's "support" for warranty claims is discouraging. Now oil for scooters, I use cheap Wal-Fart Tech 2000 car oil. We dont have clutches sharing the oil inside the motor. Not sure what your scoot calls for. Track down Ooty's Scooters in Cali and give them a call. They will point you in the right direction.

blueboy5000 · 07-01-2017, 09:17 AM

Can't run a stock air box.

Can't hit WOT+black plug= far too rich. Install an open-element filter and block off the egr port.

micco · 07-24-2017, 04:39 PM

thanks all,
so still haven't given the nitro 50 more thought, but i did start it up recently and it still smokes pretty bad - really thinking the rings are shot.

on the nitro 150 front, i have this random issue where on decelerating from a constant 60 kph to slow down, i get a random "backfire". Only happens sometimes...

thoughts?

thanks!

sc00ter · 07-25-2017, 01:04 AM

Big difference between a backfire and a miss BUT if it makes you feel any better every single cylinder (thumper) vehicle I have ever owned misses/backfires/sputters or other weird noises when slowing down. Mostly 4 strokes 125cc and up that use carbs, but my Burgman 200 does it and its EFI. Don't sweat it unless it gets really bad/constant, thats usually a sign of a air leak in the system (Honda Helix carb mount comes to mind).

07-01-2017, 09:17 AM	#24
blueboy5000 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Connecticut Posts: 493	Can't run a stock air box. Can't hit WOT+black plug= far too rich. Install an open-element filter and block off the egr port. __________________ 2011 Roketa MC-23-150 4T 150cc 157 qmj 24mm carb w 115 main jet and paper cone air filter Manual petcock w Tygon fuel lines Scrappy Dog Scooters Retro-slash stainless straight-thru exhaust RED spring clutch Adjustable CDI (brand unknown, it's blue and red and works great!) KOSO high performance variator w 12g sliders Gates Powerlink 835-20-30 belt GPS verified 65mph on flats.
	0

06-19-2017, 10:48 PM	#17
sc00ter Join Date: May 2017 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 607	To rich would be my guess. Do a plug chop (Moped Army has a great how-to) and see what color it is. Compression test would be next. Find out what ballpark your compression is supposed to be. You can "borrow/rent" a compression tester from a better auto parts store. They love to leak during testing so make sure all connections are snug. Soapy water is your friend. The original compression reading would have been you data point, but to late for that. Its out there somewhere on the Web. You checked the valve clearance and made sure the timing was correct so Im not thinking that. If it was sudden (the fog affect) you could have a bad float or the choke got stuck, but not really thinking choke. If it was sudden you may have jumped a tooth? Does the bbk use the same spark plug heat range as original cylinder? Same reach spark plug? Check if the spark plug gap is correct also. Thats all I can think of for now off the top of my head.
	0

06-20-2017, 11:53 AM	#19
sc00ter Join Date: May 2017 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 607	We have never filed rings before but know others who have. If I were to bet on what I think it is-float in carb bowl. Did you remove the bowl on the carb? If so, I bet you may have accidentally knocked the float out of adjustment. Common mistake and kinda easy to check the float height. Check the compression. That will tell you if the cylinder is at proper compression and tell you if there is a ring issue or if its something else non-compression related. Now, about the Nitro 150. You going to tag and insure it or swap the motor into your current 50cc? I have a 200cc Burgman for my main ride and play around with the 50cc for a hobby. If you tag and insure the Nitro then you can take your time and figure out the bbk kit. Learning is power, so dont give up on the bbk until you at least figure it out first. Anyways, do a compression test first and if that looks about right (info is out there, forgot what the Zuma bbk kit was) then check the float height.
	0

06-22-2017, 12:03 PM	#21
sc00ter Join Date: May 2017 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 607	Carb tuning is fun, and not always in a good way! The float can do other weird things if damaged that does not involve flooding out the carb. Choke circuit not working correct (did you unplug it and plug it back in?) can do fun things also. We go manual choke conversions to take that out of the equation. So you bought the Nitro 150, COOL! It's also SYM built and is a quality product. Parts can sometimes be a little tricky but once you find a good place that knows their stuff all will be good. I used Ooty's when I had my SYM CityCom 300i. Great place to deal with. Now take your time and get that bbk worked out. That scooter could be a loaner for a significant other to go riding with you. My wife is considering tackling the Adly (she's not comfortable on 2 wheels) just to learn it. She will go riding with us scooter riders sometimes and its pretty funny. Got a long line of scooters and a Can-Am Spyder taking up the rear with the hazards on!
	0

06-23-2017, 11:34 AM	#22
micco Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 14	thanks, i dont' recall being rough with the float, but i'll check again. I did unplug the auto choke to take the carb out, i'll double check the connection there as well. Ya so far i'm happy with the nitro 150, the confidence to accelerate is nice, and fun! Almost as fun as my previous CBR600 :P Sounds like you guys have a fun scooting community out there. I'm thinking of giving the 150 a tune up, as i don't know the last time it was done. Any suggestions on Oil and plug? Google wasn't much help and just confused me on the oil front (almost a religious battle on what to use and whats better). On the look out for a service manual for this. cheers
	0

06-24-2017, 01:10 AM	#23
sc00ter Join Date: May 2017 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 607	In my youger days I had a MODDED 1994 CBR90RR and almost ended up picking up soap for bigger and stronger men on weekends! I narrowly escape jail and quit riding motorcycles for a loooong time. Then I had a Honda Hawk NTV650 punched up to 750. It wasn't the fastest thing by any means but it went round corners like it was on rails. Blew a head gasket and did some damage so I junked it. If I get the urge for something bigger I wold consider a Yamaha T-Max. Always wanted one but Yamaha's "support" for warranty claims is discouraging. Now oil for scooters, I use cheap Wal-Fart Tech 2000 car oil. We dont have clutches sharing the oil inside the motor. Not sure what your scoot calls for. Track down Ooty's Scooters in Cali and give them a call. They will point you in the right direction.
	0

07-24-2017, 04:39 PM	#25
micco Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 14	thanks all, so still haven't given the nitro 50 more thought, but i did start it up recently and it still smokes pretty bad - really thinking the rings are shot. on the nitro 150 front, i have this random issue where on decelerating from a constant 60 kph to slow down, i get a random "backfire". Only happens sometimes... thoughts? thanks!
	0

07-25-2017, 01:04 AM	#26
sc00ter Join Date: May 2017 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 607	Big difference between a backfire and a miss BUT if it makes you feel any better every single cylinder (thumper) vehicle I have ever owned misses/backfires/sputters or other weird noises when slowing down. Mostly 4 strokes 125cc and up that use carbs, but my Burgman 200 does it and its EFI. Don't sweat it unless it gets really bad/constant, thats usually a sign of a air leak in the system (Honda Helix carb mount comes to mind).
	0