My "new" 2013 Tao Tao (Carb I.D. HELP!)

[ShotnVA777]

What's up guys and gals? I've been a long time member here, but I had to re-signup due to the "new" site that was made back in 2013! So yes, it's been a while since I've had a Chinese Scoot. My last one was a 2009 Honda Metropolitan, that I found in a TRASH PILE?! I had it running that night and started buying all the missing plastics. I eventually got it all together and stretched it, among A LOT of other mods on that CHF50... I could EASILY keep up with 55MPH traffic, without a BBK! I should have kept it, but I had a guy that traded me a FULLY built 1984 C4 Corvette for it... yes you heard that right! I then traded the Vette for a 1988 Harley Soft Tail Custom. I eventually sold that for $6000, so the flip was AWESOME! Haha! :yay:

Anywho... it's been a while since messing with these Chinese GY6's. I have a question about my Carb. I just purchased a 2013 Tao Tao with quite a few mods, including a 50mm (what they call a 100cc) BBK, better/bigger Carb, Hotter Coil, Intake Filter and P&P'd head. That's all I know as of right now, that and that it FLIES!!! Haha...

I'm pretty sure there is some work inside of the CVT case too, as this thing GETS UP quick and STAYS UP... I'm pretty sure it would keep up with my old Metro (IF I put an upgraded/performance CDI on it!). So, onto the question....

I am going to post some pics of my Carb. If anyone that can help me figure out what BRAND/SIZE of this puppy, would be GREAT! I haven't taken it off of the "intake mani" and measured yet, but when I measure the intake filter side (with a Digital Caliper), the outside reads about 38mm. I believe this is the same size as the 150cc GY6's, but it's DEFINITELY not a stock one. As I have a Znen 150 just sitting here as well! FULL "longcase" 150cc GY6 motor, that runs well. It's just a frame, motor and wheels. Everything is there, except most of the plastics. The carb I have on the Tao Tao doesn't LOOK like the stocker on the 150cc. I'm not sure what size Jets are in this Carb either... I plan to strip it down and go over everything (including looking at the Spark Plug and seeing how rich/lean it's running).

Couldn't find ANY writing on the carb, but it's kinda hard to see (looks BRAND NEW tho!)... HELP PLEASE! :thanks:

[ShotnVA777]

No one???? 38mm Opening for the intake filter! The stock hose won't fit on this Carb...

[padly1995]

No one???? 38mm Opening for the intake filter! The stock hose won't fit on this Carb...

I belive that this is DENI carb from Sym Orbit 2, i have the same one installed on my scooter and it is way better than stock one. I had few stock carbs installed before and always had idle issues, auto enricher failures...

[ShotnVA777]

I belive that this is DENI carb from Sym Orbit 2, i have the same one installed on my scooter and it is way better than stock one. I had few stock carbs installed before and always had idle issues, auto enricher failures...

Thanks a ton... I'll look it up! Do u know what size Jets come with this puppy? Also, I see what u said "makes it better", but is there anything "better" about it, as far as performance?

Reason I ask, is because I have a good, clean, rebuilt Stock 150cc Carb... off of a Znen 150cc GY6 Scooter. I've never ran into problems with these carbs after "shimming" the needle and upjetting them...? (I would possibly need to downjet the 150cc Carb for the 50mm BBK and aftermarket UniFilter!)

All of this said, the Bike seems to run great... I clocked myself at about 50MPH using "Ulysses Speedometer" (GPS/Android App). I try not to "gun it" ALL the time, but it's so hard! Lol :lmao:

Do u think I would be better with the said carb or the 150cc?

[blueboy5000]

38mm is the standard size of a 50cc gy6 carb filter-side. That carb is a basic 19mm standard 50cc carb.

The standard size carb for the 150cc is a 24mm with a 42mm filter-side(inlet).

50mm is 74.5cc, so it's an 80cc, not a 100cc.

Now about carbs in general:

Bigger NOT better. With carbs, it's about stoichiometrics, which is optimizing the air to fuel ratio, it's not about simply throwing more gas at it. So a 150 carb is pretty much useless to a 139.

You probably have a larger main jet in your current carb, or it would be dangerously lean, or most likely, not run at all with the stock main jet.

The speeds you indicate are about the maximum for your cc's w significant cvt mods.

[ShotnVA777]

38mm is the standard size of a 50cc gy6 carb filter-side. That carb is a basic 19mm standard 50cc carb.

The standard size carb for the 150cc is a 24mm with a 42mm filter-side(inlet).

50mm is 74.5cc, so it's an 80cc, not a 100cc.

Now about carbs in general:

Bigger NOT better. With carbs, it's about stoichiometrics, which is optimizing the air to fuel ratio, it's not about simply throwing more gas at it. So a 150 carb is pretty much useless to a 139.

You probably have a larger main jet in your current carb, or it would be dangerously lean, or most likely, not run at all with the stock main jet.

The speeds you indicate are about the maximum for your cc's w significant cvt mods.

If you read my OP, you would see that I know a 50mm BBK is not a 100cc (just what they CALL it) :) lol...

Nonetheless, I have more info on the bike now. it does about 45mph on flats, GPS verified, with my 190lb a$s on it! I would like to get some more speed out of it, take off is GREAT but top end really struggles, IMO. I think the previous owner PROBABLY put lighter rollers in the stock Variator, with all of the other stock CVT stuff.

That said, I don't think my carb is stock, but what do I know? I'm just a "Junior Member"! Haha... I do have a stock Tao Tao carb sitting right here, it looks nothing like it and you can't even adjust the low jet setting - without me dremeling/filing a grove in it for a flathead! Which I've obviously already done. Anyways, it HAS to be upjetted, whether stock or not. It smells SUPER rich when being revved, after its warmed up, in my garage. Even get a little smoke, but I REALLY can't tell if it's black or blue. :mad: It doesn't smell like oil WHATSOEVER though and DOES smell rich, like I said. So I believe it's unburnt fuel! My oil level hasn't changed A LICK since buying it and it's still nice and golden, no blackness whatsoever, which to me is a trip. I've put AT LEAST 100+miles on it, since I've had it and the oil is flawless. I love THAT part!

I admit, I'm being lazy. I Still haven't checked the jets, I will very soon, when I put on a metal intake mani. THAT is another reason I don't think it's the stock carb, as it has a different intake elbow than stock! I think that part is pretty well tuned for the low end, nonetheless. I think the main jet could be leaned out a little more AND/OR have this performance exhaust I have sitting here slapped on (that would lean it out probably ABOUT "perfect") It's actually a bigger pipe w/ a 4 Stroke 80cc Dirtbike Muffler. I will be ordering a jet tuning kit (for the main) here very soon. I REALLY need to check the spark plug and do the 'ol site test, see if it looks as if it's rich or lean. I'm pretty positive it is going to be wet and black though! But, when I get the energy, it'll be pulled. Probably once I get all these "tuning parts"! I pulled the needle to see if it was adjustable, in order to maybe lean it out up top. Well, guess what?! It wasn't adjustable and someone had put a washer on the needle in order to get more fuel, from the main jet, at WOT. I've since removed that. (After removing it, the bike went from 43mph flats to 45mph flats). I also tuned the low jet on the carb that's on there, it idles and responds MUCH better, which I didn't even think was POSSIBLE! Lol! BUT THE LOW JET ADJUSTMENT ALONE WAS NOT STRICTLY THE REASON I PICKED UP LOW END....

I went as far as to pull my "Magneto Pick-up" off and used a dremel to "cut" into the bolt holes ON THE PICKUP "MOUNT"! I just dremeled out the RIGHT SIDE of the bolt holes in order to MOVE the pickup a little to the left (advancing timing).

I take no "credit" on coming up with this, but on YouTube of "Project Tao Tao", the guy does it and it actually works!! Doesn't everyone love "free mods"?! He had clear indication of exactly how much timing advanced was occurring at various speeds. It PROVED to work correctly and actually BETTER than any "performance CDI" he had! Amazing, I'll save my money!!! I checked my timing before and after, it only advanced it a tid bit! Enough to make a DRAMATIC difference (with the tuning of the pilot jet as well) on take off though!!!

Man, this thing FLIES to about 30ish and THEN really starts slowing up all the way to its top end. I would like some opinions here, but this is what I plan to do:

- Get all aftermarket CVT stuff, including a Kevlar Belt and a "Roller Tuning Kit"
- Get a "Main Jet Tuning Kit"
- Install aftermarket exhaust and muffler
- Possible valve lapping, but DEFINITELY ADJUSTMENT! (What's the best valve clearance for this 50mm BBK?)

If I can get this thing to do 50MPH, SAFELY, with me on it... I would be completely happy and I would begin on lowering, building a custom stretch kit, hardtail, LED lights, paint, New seat, etc etc... I plan to keep this bike "forever", as a backup for all of my vehicles. I WISH I would've never gotten rid of my Metro!!! :doh:

WHAT DO YALL THINK?! :shrug:

(PS: Can I use ANYTHING off my Znen 150cc GY6 on this smaller Tao Tao 50cc GY6? Rollers? Variator? Any of that stuff an "upgrade" for the BBK TAO?

[ShotnVA777]

Oh yes... I apologize for the first "MPH Readings", my phone was SUPER dead at the time and it wasn't reading right whatsoever. I made sure I had a good, full battery the next go around. I was kind of disappointed lol

[ShotnVA777]

Bump

[ShotnVA777]

Bump... Bump bump it up!!!

I have a STOCK 50cc Main Jet sitting here and I'd like to drill it out to just a "STEP" leaner than my current (obviously a bigger, "aftermarket" jet).

What size drill bits do I need??

[blueboy5000]

The carb probably does not need a main jet change. You cannot accurately decide if it is rich or lean based on smell, you must do a "plug chop" which means run the engine for 20 miles or so and then with the engine off, check the color of the resistor of the spark plug. It should appear coffee colored. If it is grey or white, or has ashes it is lean. If it is black or very dark brown, or has sludge, it is rich.

Do not run your bike inside your garage, even with the doors open! That is at the very least severely intoxicating and highly potentially fatal!

[blueboy5000]

I'd put the cdi pick up back where it's supposed to be, that's a bad way to mess with timing, HEI is not a distributor. If you want a different timing curve, use an appropriate advanced curve CDI.

[ShotnVA777]

The carb probably does not need a main jet change. You cannot accurately decide if it is rich or lean based on smell, you must do a "plug chop" which means run the engine for 20 miles or so and then with the engine off, check the color of the resistor of the spark plug. It should appear coffee colored. If it is grey or white, or has ashes it is lean. If it is black or very dark brown, or has sludge, it is rich.

Do not run your bike inside your garage, even with the doors open! That is at the very least severely intoxicating and highly potentially fatal!

No upjet for a 50cc Carb, running a high flow Uni Filter and open exhaust?! Com'n maaan! Lol! Oh, and I've ran race motors in that there garage!!! I have several duct fans pulling out ANY fumes (I'm a welder, remember?!) Lol... I know how to do a plug chop, but I'm waiting on the RPM Gauge, the Roller Tuning Kit and the MAIN jet Tuning Kit! I will report back, after I figure this all out (one change at a time!) :tup:

I'd put the cdi pick up back where it's supposed to be, that's a bad way to mess with timing, HEI is not a distributor. If you want a different timing curve, use an appropriate advanced curve CDI.

You need to be educated by this man here... he did SEVERAL pulls and had EVERYTHING he needed to PROVE HIS POINT! There's more than one way to $@%# a scooter! This Mod actually works JUST AS WELL as the "performance CDI(S)"! Have a look for yourself my friend... :scoot:

HERE: https://youtu.be/p63JXW29tVo

[blueboy5000]

Sorry, but I have been an Automotive technician since 1996, and have been building scooters since 1987. You will forgive me for not dismissing 29 years of experience for a series of Youtube videos.

[ShotnVA777]

Sorry, but I have been an Automotive technician since 1996, and have been building scooters since 1987. You will forgive me for not dismissing 29 years of experience for a series of Youtube videos.

"The PROOF is in the pudding!" Simple as that.

Anyhow... I have figured out MANY things with this scooter now that I've started to dig in! I will start a "Build Thread" sometime or another. But to answer the original question, the Carb is just a replacement, stock size 18mm Carb. I will be upgrading to a 20mm of the same style carburetor.

/Thread!

[Linhai260]

I have a 2016 tao tao I have a 19mm cvk carb and a performance exhaust I tried a 72 jet wouldn't even fire tried a 74 jet didn't fire tried a 80 jet wouldn't fire what is the best jet to go with considering I have a performance exhaust on top of a 19mm carb