Solution for Cold Weather Starting

[skyrider]

A scooter will start in 23 degrees or colder if its warm. Last night I put my flimsy, cheap parachute cover on my scoot and it didn't cover it, so I put a tarp over that covering to the ground and put bricks to keep it down. But the secret to it starting was putting a handheld trouble light with a 100watt bulb on the bottom of the scoot, making sure it didn't touch the tarp or it would melt that part touching it. When I came out this morning it started right up, didn't even have to turn the throttle several times to get gas in the carb!!
For those that have to use their scoot every day this will be an answer in the morning, then perhaps take the setup with to work and plug it in there, or start it every few hours. At first I was thinking of fire, blowing up the scoot, but I have no gas leaks and the trouble light is new, cord in good condition. A heat lamp would also work.

[cheapeto]

From and old ADV rider thread,http://www.autocoolingsolutions.com/products.php?cat=ATV%2F+UTV+Engine+Oil+Heaters

[bull]

Here is a lot simpler and cheaper solution:
1.. go to auto parts store and buy a vacuum 'T' or "Y' fitting with 3/16 inch nipples. a 12 inch piece of 3/16" fuel line and a can of starting fluid
2. remove your seat bucket
3. cut the vacuum line that runs to the auto fuel shutoff valve from the intake at about mid length at a good upward angle.
4. insert the vacuum T or Y fitting so that a more vertical nipple points upward and connect the new fuel line to that nipple
5. drill an inconspicuous hole into your seat bucket and route the new 3/16' fuel line through it
6. reinstall your seat with the hose through it.
7. insert a golf tee into the hose

When you need to start the scooter in extremely cold temps, simply raise the seat, remove the golf tee, spray some starting fluid (liquid) into the hose and wait for it to drain down. Start the scooter and then reinsert the golf tee, close the seat and wait for a couple minutes for the scooter temp to rise before riding

[skyrider]

"simpler and cheaper" for you"- different strokes for different folks. For me, spraying starting fluid and waiting would be a pain. I'd rather remove a tarp and have my scooter start right up without waiting a couple minutes for it to be temp for riding. Actually, all that needs to be done is cover the seat/rear of the scoot and put a heat lamp or metal shield trouble light($10 Home Depot) or the oil pan heater even thought its more expensive sounds like an excellent idea. You just adhere it to the oil pan and then plug in when necessary.
So I guess the question is: what needs to be warm to start the scoot?? Is it the oil or carb or what??

[skyrider]

Here's what Mother Earth news says:
What the Cold Does

Cold weather makes the engine hard to start for two main reasons. First, oil thickens when it's cold, which increases friction and makes it harder for the staner motor to spin the engine. Cold also slows the chemical reaction in the car's battery, reducing its power output. Battery output is usually rated at 77 degrees Fahrenheit, below which starting power drops drastically. As shown in Figure I, (See the car diagrams in the image gallery) at 5 degrees Fahrenheit a fully charged lead-acid battery has only half its rated amp-hour capacity. You can ensure that your car will start in the worst weather by keeping the engine or the battery, or both, warm. But before we discuss some of the ways - short of building a heated garage - to keep the underhood cozy, let's review basic maintenance.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/nature-and-environment/car-starting-tips-zmaz87jfzgoe.aspx

So to answer my question, both oil and battery need to be kept warm.

[bull]

battery ratings @ 77F is CA, not CCA. that is @ 32F.

i have lots of experience starting engines @ ambient temps of -40F and the cold does take its toll for sure. I personally look at all factors incl the risk of fire and cost factor of powering an electric apparatus such as block heaters that have been used on diesels for decades.

have seen my share of vehicles with an electric plug catch fire when a house circuit breaker does not trip, so for me, my idea is simpler and cheaper since starting fluid has been used for almost a century.

fortunately i have not seen a house catch fire as most vehicles were parked far enough away so the fire did not jump to the house.

[skyrider]

thanks for pointing out the fire hazard!! I did google "fires and engine warmers" or something like that, and it appeared that most fires occurred from worn extension cords vs an actual short in the warmer itself. That being said, I'm sure a spike could cause a short in the lamp, or a short could occur in the lamp without a spike, so I see your point.

[bull]

Since we are on the subject, perhaps we should point out a couple other safety items related to cold weather starting.

IF your battery is severely depleted and you use a battery charger, a jump box, or even a car to supply power for starting-- exercise great caution-- batteries (lead /acid) that are even partially frozen have been known to explode when connecting power to them.

So, if your battery is frozen, remove it, take it in the house and warm it up before attempting a jump.

If you fail to do this, but get your scooter started, your AC charging system could supply enough power to cause an explosion WHILE you are riding. Most of the GY6 50cc stators only put out about 5 amps max, but if you have upgraded it and followed most parts sellers & youtube videos, then it can put out 10amps. both of these outputs into a frozen battery of that size could cause an explosion. the risk is too just too great.

I personally had an unknown at the time frozen battery explode when I attempted to jump start a vehicle with a Generac booster (up to 500 amp output). It exploded within 5 seconds of supplying power. I was far enough away that when it exploded, none of the acid got on me, but it covered the car and it had to be repainted.

If you are using starting fluid (ether) or any substitute fuel source to start a vehicle, use it sparingly and relocate the can away from where you originally sprayed, before cranking the scooter or car. Do not have your face above the carb or throttle body while cranking. A backfire can remove your eyebrows rather quickly or even cause the can to explode.

[skyrider]

I'm thinking a new, excellent condition trouble light with a 75 watt bulb or same condition heat lamp and same condition heavy duty extension cord would be low risk, especially 6" away and below the scoot.

[tcthomp66]

I live in an apartment, so I don't have the option of running an extension cord. I think I'll propose plan C:

Modify your battery wires with quick disconnects. If it's going to be cold, then disconnect the battery and take it in with you to home/work. (If it's warm enough for you, it's probably warm enough for the battery.)

Also, if you're going to use electric heat, use some sort of surge protection. In the event the heat lamp or trouble light is shorted out by rain/snow/physical damage, the surge protector will probably save your property.

[cheapeto]

Going to synthetic oil will help as cold dont thicken it like dino oil does.

[skyrider]

Thanks for the suggestions, ie surge protection, thin oil, carry the battery in. Bull actually posted on a recent similar thread that he now has a manual choke which he likes the best. They are cheap and great description on this site of how to do: http://scootdawg.proboards.com/thread/22870/manual-choke-conversion-pics

I think I'll just design a throw down pop-up tent that folds to 12"x12", throw it out, roll my scoot in, a small heater inside and call it a day, LOL!! Or build a garage for my scoot and have it heated, LOL!!

[bull]

Excellent suggestions:

A new trouble light, but for best results, wouldn't you want an incandescent bulb? the reason i ask, is in most areas they are no longer available and you must use a screw in florescent. Or you could use a spot light

taking the battery inside will definitely increase its cranking ability, but if the weather is cold enough it still may not start. family had a Mercury Montclair w/ 460 c.i. engine that would crank fine, but no manner of accelerator pumping would get it to start without ether or liquid fuel direct into the carb.

With that said, I recently BBK'd a 2014 Tao Tao that was running rich before the upgrade (too big of idle jet from factory), it ran less rich afterwards but still started easily with 20F temps w/o changing the idle jet.

Synthetic oil is all I use and 10W30 as it reduces friction overall which gives more power, I have considered 5W30 and 0W30 for cold temps like most of the country is experiencing but have not tried it yet.

Must be someone else using the same Bull handle, maybe I should change mine. What do you think?

btw.. is there a way to give a "thumbs up" in this forum? I haven't seen one.

[rks]

I think my choice would be the little heater in the link that cheapeto included in post #2 of this thread. Only 25 watts, a lot closer to what you want to heat, and no chance of your tarp, or cover getting against it. I would certainly prefer this to starting fluid.

But in reality, I do what most of us northerners do, park the 2 wheelers in November....and get them back out in mid April.

[bandito2]

In your message you could use the smilies to the right of the message text box or the icons below will show along side the message title in the "Last Post" listing. For example; the thumb down here :tdown: and the thumb up next to the message title.
I am assuming this is what you mean.

edit: Odd... it didn't post the thumb up icon on the message list but is above the message when looking at it... wonder what I did wrong? Maybe it only works when it is the original post?

[bull]

i was hoping for someway to thumbs up someone else's post, that way if you like their answer, you can show that as well as let site visitors understand that a post is worthwhile as good info.

[skyrider]

Lol, sorry Bull, I meant Dwint51 about the manual choke which he posted here:http://www.scootdawg.net/showthread.php?t=54822 :tup:
(Found out you have to reply "advanced" to get the smiles!!:hmm:

Yes, flourescent bulbs or heat lamp I reckon. But yesterday I called AutoCoolingSolutions and spoke to a mechanic there for quite a while about fires from using an oil pan heater or their other warming products and they haven't had any. He did say it could catch fire but was unlikely and I could use a circuit breaker strip for extra precaution. He suggested to get the oil pan warmer first before worrying about the battery. I elected to leave my oil wt as is and not change it. Apparently the products also have a sort of power protection too. So I bought their 25w model to try out: http://www.autocoolingsolutions.com/proddetail.php?prod=ATV-UTV-Oil-Pan-Heater-Engine-Oil-Heater-120v-25-Watt-NEW. Stay tuned!!:nod::scoot::shrug::hmm::clap::cheers:

[bull]

are you planning on monitoring its power consumption? if so keep us posted as others may install one

my scoot already sometimes rubs on the center stand when I go over the curb (10" tires), would be concerned about damage. but if you have a drive w/o curb that would not be a concern

[skyrider]

Oops, didn't think about that!! I do go over curbs. Maybe if I carry a ramp with me I could set it up and jump over the curbs, Scootkneivel,LOL!!
Actually, I'll check out the clearance, may have to stop the order if it hasn't gone out, or return it. Just checked the site description and the pad is 1", so might work???? Thanks ahead for the suggestion!! I'll try to figure out the power consumption, thanks for the suggestions!! Cheers!!

[rks]

I'm trying to think of a situation where I would have to drive over a curb.....damned if I can. Where do you guys ride? Scooters are supposed to be driven on the streets.....are you driving down the sidewalks? I don't get it.

I wouldn't be worried about a fire, just plug it into a 3 prong extension cord. It is only 25 watts....it will take 40 hours of running to burn 1 kilowatt hour. That's about 13 cents worth of electricity, up here in NY State....probably cheaper where you are.

[bull]

In my townhome community, parking area is out front away from the house, but I park on my sidewalk closer to the front door. To get there requires going over the curb. Going up the scooter drags the center stand w/o me on it and lifting and pushing.

I park on the sidewalk as a theft prevention measure.

If you ever want to ride in the cooler months try a Tyvek jump suit to keep you warm. It works great and still allows freedom of movement, just get one from a decent supplier. Too diehard of a rider to give up a few months of inactivity, been riding in cold weather since first started riding.

[rks]

I found this pan heater yesterday....I don't need one for my scoot, but one a few sizes bigger than the one I linked would be nice on my diesel tractor. If the weather we've had the last 2 winters is going to be the new norm, I could sure use one. (high temperature today -2*)

http://www.amazon.com/Kats-24025-Watt-Universal-Heater/dp/B000I8XDBM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424729029&sr=8-1&keywords=kat%27s+heater+pad

[skyrider]

Bull for President!!!! He knows his stuff. Listen to him!!!:thanks:

Bull warned of the dangers of using engine /battery and oil pan warmers as fire hazards, as well as using a light bulb etc. to warm an engine. Two days ago I got 25 watt oil pan heater from AutoCoolingSolutions.com. Put it on my oil pan and used it for 30 min, gets extremely hot to touch, and scooter did start better, but not great. Yesterday I put it on for 1 hr and found that it didn't heat, it was stone cold. So I tried slightly moving the cord and bam, short and sparks, loud noise!!! No harm except scaring the daylights out of me!!
604

[tvnacman]

I just go with a larger pilot jet, most of the winter it fine. When 20 or below I put a coffee cup over the pod filter partly.

John