Are there any reliable china-scoots yet?

[zumaguy123]

Hi, am thinking about getting a second scoot-----researched china-scoots a couple years ago and decided to pass at the time and bought a Zuma instead assuming that eventually one of the Chinese companies would start producing something reliable and relatively cheap.
Has that happened yet?

My Zuma F has provided over 10,500 trouble-free miles of riding (other than flat-tires) and I'm thinking about selling it and up-grading to a Zuma 125 but would also like to get something else (cheaper) to ride in order to off-set some of the mileage and wear-n-tear on the new Zuma, need something that I can rely on to actually crank and not leave me stranded. I was thinking about maybe getting a second low mileage used Zuma or maybe a used Honda Met but was curious about how the china-scoots are doing these days before I make a decision.

So, how have the china-scoots made any progress?

Your thoughts?

Thanks

[kz1000st]

Look at the Lance line of scooters. They sell Chinese built SYMs at a very reasonable price. After that and next on the food chain are Kymco Agilities, The 125 comes in under two grand and is stone ax reliable,

[zumaguy123]

Thanks, I'm gonna look into that.

[novaraptor]

"my momma always said that reliable is as reliable does.." Seriously, if the question is "are there any chinese scooters that you can just hop on and ride the crap out of with very little maintainance and get the same life expectancy of an Italian or Japanese scoot" then the answer is "No". With proper PDI and reasonable maintainance, there are some very well performing chinese, korean, and taiwanese products available.

[kz1000st]

Lance scooters are built by SYM in their China plant much like Kymco builds the Agilities, Super 8 and Like models. I avoided crate scooters like Tao Tao and Bashan since they're only as reliable as their owners. Lance is only sold through a dealer and has a warranty making it as serviceable as any other. The Kymco Agility is as reliable as anything according to many sources.

http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic130381.2

http://www.scootersus.com/cfmoto.html

[thumper650]

+1 for the Kymco Aglity. I have the 50cc and it's been really reliable.
I'd love the new Zuma, but I've read the valve adjustments require draining the cooling system so I just kept riding my Kymco. It need some time to warm up in the Winter, like under 40 degrees, but it's been very reliable.

[kz1000st]

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/824/17465/Motorcycle-Article/2013-Kymco-Agility-125-Comparison-Review.aspx

The Agility was the Superbike in this scooter review.

[blueboy5000]

I've been riding scooters for 30+ years, I have YET to see the huge difference in quality between China and other countries in terms of scooters.

Scooters, by their vary nature, are high-performance small-engine motorcycles, ALL of which require maintenance and all of which break down from time to time.

My several gy6's are by no means more prone to mechanical failure than my E-Ton, Kymco and Hondas.

[kz1000st]

I have to wonder myself about the quality issue. Looking at the Vespa forum it seems to me you're not getting your six to seven thousand dollars worth of quality there. Especially in comparison to a two thousand dollar Chinese 250cc.

The biggest difference is in warranty, set up and follow on care over a crate scooter for the average person. Lance has that part covered.

[thumper650]

I don't think it has as much to do with where it's made, but who makes it. My Kymco AG is made in China, so was my Lance (back when they were Znen) The Kymco has been way more trouble free than the Znen. Little things were always breaking on it, and parts were a pain to find. Personally I'd probably not buy another no-name Chinese scooter, since I use it to get to work.

I totally agree that Vespas are overpiced. Kinda like a luxury car, it's just a name.

[kz1000st]

My favorite story in defense of Znen Lances is this. There used to be a member here named Dorian. He had a Lance Milan he commuted on daily. He put 24,000 miles on it in just over a year with regular maintenance; bolt tightening, bulb replacement and routine things. He did a big jump on a dirt mound one day and broke the frame. It still got him home but he scrapped it not wanting to replace the frame or trusting a weld repair. The engine still ran splendidly.

Mike at Lance switched to SYM built models when he started hearing that his scooters were being used as commuters after the rise in gas prices in 2008 and people wanted solid rides. Prior to that the philosophy was that his Lances were being used as weekend toys, so day to day reliability wasn't a big issue. You have to applaud that kind of commitment to customer needs.

[thumper650]

Mike at Lance switched to SYM built models when he started hearing that his scooters were being used as commuters after the rise in gas prices in 2008 and people wanted solid rides. Prior to that the philosophy was that his Lances were being used as weekend toys, so day to day reliability wasn't a big issue. You have to applaud that kind of commitment to customer needs.

I guess that's big of him, but maybe he just realized he was selling crap, and wouldn't stay in business long.

I do wonder how the PCH is, it looks great but I had a Sym built Tomos Nitro that I wasn't crazy about.

[kz1000st]

I don't think 24,000 miles on a Lance Milan is indicative of crap. Many Znen Lances are running to this day.

Blown valves in $7000, pressed steel scooters is more an indication of crap to me.

http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic130381.2

[thumper650]

I don't think 24,000 miles on a Lance Milan is indicative of crap. Many Znen Lances are running to this day.

Blown valves in $7000, pressed steel scooters is more an indication of crap to me.

http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic130381.2

I'm glad he had such good luck with his Znen Lance. Mine (a GSR-150) was a piece of crap. 3 years, 8000 miles, wasn't the problem. The amount of work I put into it to keep it running was the problem. I'd have been way better off with a used Honda. I've chalked it up to a learning experience.

Blown valves in a $7000 scooter is also crap. Fortunately that's both ends of the spectrum.

[kz1000st]

I can't get an answer where this is built. Either China or Vietnam according to some.

http://www.justgottascoot.com/piaggiofly150.htm

Chinese built:
http://www.justgottascoot.com/cfmotojetmax.htm
http://www.justgottascoot.com/agility125.htm
http://www.justgottascoot.com/symfiddle2.htm
http://www.justgottascoot.com/cfmotoglory.htm
http://www.justgottascoot.com/like200.htm
http://www.justgottascoot.com/cali125.htm
http://www.justgottascoot.com/cabo150.htm
http://www.justgottascoot.com/lancepch.htm

Not all favorable but everyone here is dealer backed and priced less than a brand name equivalent.

[thumper650]

I can't get an answer where this is built. Either China or Vietnam according to some.
.

I rented one in 08, I think, the label said made in China, and there was a sticker inside the trunk that said "NO PETS" :)

It was a great scoot. Seemed very well made, don't really know because I only had it for a day.

[kz1000st]

I know the 2008 Piaggio Fly 150 was built by Zongshen, after that it's a mystery. The engine is built in Taiwan to Vespa specs and sent to the factory that's building the rest. I assumed that it was still being built in China but Dave Harrington seems to feel they may have moved it to Vietnam. I'll presume it's Chinese built until some article contradicts me. I sent an inquiry to Piaggio USA but they refused to reply.

[jdikov]

I have been speaking to a few of my dealers recently and have heard that there are quite a few of our 50cc ZNEN built Motorino scooters out there that have over 20,000 miles on them and are still going strong. No major work had to be done on any of them, they just had proper regular maintenance. And as far as parts we always have all the replacement parts for these scooters. The other nice thing about the ZNENs is that there are a number of distributors in the US so if one of us does go out of business you will still have parts available.

Would love to hear from more ZNEN owners who have high miles on their scoots. For the money they are about the best China built scoot out there.:tup:

[kz1000st]

I didn't keep it long but I owned a Lance Charming by Znen. I was surprised by the difference between it and my 150cc Bashan. The body panels were more solid, the valves were easier to adjust and the controls were even better material. It rolled along at 35 mph with ease and climbed hills without blinking. My garage was too full at the time or I would have kept it. High mileage 50cc stories have been around for years and their engines seem to be their strong point.

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp129/kz1000ST/Lance50003.jpg (http://s404.photobucket.com/user/kz1000ST/media/Lance50003.jpg.html)

[rachhoyt]

It seemed to me in reading through this thread that information about the Lance scooters is not entirely accurate. None of the new SYM made Lance scooters are made in China. Only the Lance models made in 2009 and prior were made in China (and not by SYM). The current models are a big step up in quality and it is much harder to find parts for a Chinese made Lance vs. a SYM Lance scooter.

I recommend staying away from Chinese made models (other than possibly the Kymko Like or Agility). If you are going to buy a Chinese made bike, make sure you know who is willing to service it first and where you will buy parts from. Kymko parts generally take a minimum of three weeks to acquire. Parts for the Chinese made Lances can be hard to come by as well and often you cannot use the parts from the new SYM made Lance scooters in a Chinese made Lance. And, there are many shops out there who won't work on any Chinese made bikes because they're afraid other items will break while they are working on the bike (due to weak metal, etc.) and that they'll be responsible for fixing it at no cost.

[kz1000st]

Sorry, but you're wrong. Lance scooters by SYM are made in China with enough Taiwanese parts to be titled with "R" VIN numbers. No discussion, it's fact. I've spoken with a dealer who confirmed it.

Pre-SYM Lances by Znen were a mixed bag but they had dealer backing and many attained long life and big miles. The dealer backed Znen scoots today rival many more expensive scooters for quality. Parts are plentiful and reasonably priced. Low quality is arguable and if you look down you'll see I have enough miles to know what I'm talking about.

[kz1000st]

I just had this subject cleared up for me by way of the Piaggio Fly 150

You're right. The ZAP (World Manufacturer Identifier) part is Italy, and the position numeral 4 is the plant location, and in this case it is China. 5 is Italy.

Here is a link to a letter from Piaggio to the NHTSA. Not the easiest to read (quality). The italian is easy enough to figure out. It gives the answers to many VIN questions (especially as they relate to Piaggio/Vespa).

ftp://safercar.gov/MfrMail/ORG2211.pdf

http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic134940

As you see a manufacturer's home location is the important thing in VIN numbers not local content. Chinese built SYMs, Lance, Tomos and all the other Taiwanese designated SYMs are only Taiwanese in name only. They're built in China the same as Tao Tao, Bashan and Znen. Yes, the specs are more precise but the metal is the same.