Get Him

[kz1000st]

I don't apologize for me feelings about Chinese scooters. I believe that a well cared for, sensibly ridden China bike will do just fine.

http://www.youmotorcycle.com/should-i-buy-a-chinese-scooter.html#ixzz2zWbdT2au

My comment is awaiting moderation but here's what I said.

Jim Zeiser
April 21, 2014 at 8:45 am
Your comment is awaiting moderation.

I’m going to try and stay calm about this. You see that yellow scooter you’re using as an example? I have one. Contrary to what that terrible mechanic Phil Walters of Pride Of Cleveland says, whose ad you used. They work just fine in the hands of non-Vespa owners.
Let’s take your points, one by one.
1) The Chinese use cheaper materials but guess what Honda uses cheaper parts than BMW. The problem has ALWAYS BEEN the importers here. You want a cheap piece of crap? Fine sir, here you go. Companies like GS Motorworks have speced better quality scooters and it shows. Mine has 8,000 miles, runs just fine and will continue to run just as well as any Italian, ancient, pressed steel overpriced scooter. I have the original fuel lines, vacuum lines and tire valves. All because the importer ordered them.

2) Every smart person here in the states has heard of www,scrappydogscooters.com , http://www.partsforscooters.com , http://www.scooterbelts.com and many other firms that sell Chinese parts at reasonable prices. I needed a transmission shaft for a CF Moto CN 250. I ordered it on Tuesday and had it by Thursday, less than 48 hours later. For laughs I also ordered the matching Honda CN 250 shaft. It came, in 8 days and cost twice as much.

3) At this moment all Chinese scooters are the same inside and out. You can order parts from those people above and not pay an arm and a leg for parts. Try putting a Kawasaki transmission shaft in a Honda. Let me know how that works out.

4) I recommend them, have been riding for 52 years and am the son of an old Triumph dealer. Your resume please. Yes, if you buy a Chinese scooter, ride all day at WFO and never service it the thing will blow up. If you ride it like something costing one third the price of a comparable brand name it will last. $5000 for a 150 Vespa ROFL.

5) Who will work on it? How about you? I have. They’re not ceramic lined, V VTI or fuel injected. On the scooter forums many people ask for advice having never worked on a scooter before and succeed. You can’t do that but want a Chinese scooter. Here in the States we have Lance, Puma, Bintelli and Wolf brand scooters, sold by dealers who back them and they still don’t cost an arm and a leg

I have three Chinese scooter.
2008 Bashan Biella-8,000 miles
2009 CF Moto Fashion 250-8,000 miles
2009 Bashan 50cc clone of a Honda Cub-3,200 miles

Lets see, three Chinese bikes, almost 20,000 miles together. But what do I know, right Phil?

[kz1000st]

I also didn't mean any offense to any Piaggio, Vespa, Suzuki, Kymco, Yamaha.......etc. I just felt this article was so biased and uninformed it warranted a sharp rebuke. That ad they used equating a Yellow Chinese scooter with a lemon has vexed me for years.

[gitsum]

How much do you pay for a "better" Chinese scooter?

I've owned both a "cheapo" (Longbo 150) and a "better" (Strada Eurojet rx150i) Chinese scooter as well as Honda, Yamaha, SYM, and CPI, around 10 or so total. Add about a dozen or so motorcycles on to that list and I do all my own maintenance and repairs, I hope that qualifies me for a meaningful opinion.

If you compare a "cheapo" $900 Chinese scooter to a $3500 Honda or Yamaha scooter in the 150cc size, I would rather spend the extra money, even though the price difference is quite large.

If you compare a a "better" $1300 - $1600 Chinese scooter to a $3500 Honda or Yamaha scooter, you could possibly justify the savings vs. the higher quality of the name brand Japanese. If you are adamant about maintenance and can repair it yourself, then indeed you can get some decent mileage out of a "better" Chinese scooter provided you don't ride it too hard (what some people call abuse, but you can ride your Honda or Yamaha like that all day long).

Or you could compare your "better Chinese scooter to a "budget" Taiwanese scooter? This is where the Chinese scooter loses it's credibility, at least for me.

$1800 for a Kymco Agility 125, $1899 drop shipped for a Tomos Nitro 150 (made by SYM), $1995 for a Lance 125 (made by SYM), or $2200 for Lance's 150cc models. There are some Eton 150cc (made in Taiwan) deals out there on new leftovers for $1500.

I am currently riding the made by SYM Tomos Nitro 150. Out of the crate it does an actual 65 mph on level ground bone stock. I tuned my variator with some Dr. Pulley sliders and turned the air/fuel screw 1/8 turn richer and went from a #108 main jet to a #110. Added a 55/60 watt halogen round headlight and put some Duro HF903 dual sport tires on it.

I challenge anybody with a "better" Chinese scooter to ride it like we ride the Tomos Nitro 150.

55mph+ all day long riding two up. Offroad through mountain ranges up to 9000 feet in elevation and to remote places were we've gone 50 miles without seeing another vehicle or human being.

One time we rode up a rocky switchback mountain pass that was so rough and steep we puttered up at 5-10 mph. Before we got to the top we could smell the clutch burning. Not only did we make it to the top, but all the way home without a single hiccup. I disassemble the CVT and the clutch pads were a little glazed and the clutch bell had turned blue from the heat. But it was still true and balanced and after lightly sanding the pads and lubing the sheave it still works perfectly. The extreme heat compromised the stock Bando belt and it broke a couple of hundred miles later, I replaced it with a genuine Gates powerlink for $24.

I changed the oil (dino 10w 40) every 500 miles when riding at highway speeds. I've checked the valves four times and adjusted them twice even though they were still in spec. We get 80 mpg riding the crap out of it, or as some would claim, abusing it. This is what a GY6 engine is made for, simple, rugged, durable and reliable.
With proper maintenance you shouldn't have to "take it easy".

5000 miles and counting, the Tomos Nitro 150 is still running like brand new.

My point? If you want a premium scooter that will run forever but don't want the premium price, buy a "budget" Taiwanese scooter. If people are willing to spend a little extra to get a "better" quality Chinese scooter, why not spend the same or a little extra to get an even better quality?

If anyone has any doubts about the bulletproof nature of the Tomos Nitro 150, just go to symforums.com.
I have documented many fabulous journeys with pics showing how to ride a GY6 scooter like it was really intended.

[Gimpdog]

Here's to looking back a short time ago when the same type of stuff was being said of the Japanese group of scoots and motorcycles. Then there was that thing taxing cycles 750cc and above because the "established" motorcycle company was selling junky bikes and were afraid of losing their business to better built Japanese bikes...
Now the "established" motorcycle companies are worried that in time these chinese scoots and cycles will take the profit away from them. So you have an all out war against the chines products...
I agree. Use the chinese scoot the way it was intended, and it will keep you happy with many miles of fun and entertaining pleasure. Abuse it, and it will break easily, just like an "established" bike will break if abused...

[spandi]

I don't feel you maligned the "brand name" scoots in anyway (they ARE overpriced) Something else to remember, the Pride of Cleveland "Public safety announcements" date from 2009 (when Chinese q/c was at it's worst.) The quality has improved since then, and a lot of the problems have more to do with the OWNER than the bike. :scoot:

[cheapeto]

I ride a brand, but I'd never buy a brand new one.

[thumper650]

KZ, I wouldn't get too worked up about it. It's just another dopey article on the interweb.

@gitsum, I'm glad you had such a great expeirence with your Sym Tomos 150. I have a 50cc version and it's had it's share of problems. It's always started and run, but lots of nagging little problems have come up. I've had a better experience with a Kymco Agility 50 that a friend sold to me, so it's my daily driver. I'm going to fix a few problems with the SymTomos and sell it.

[gitsum]

I like the Kymco Agility. It's a good scooter and great bang for the buck.

[kz1000st]

Yes, I know. I just get annoyed when I see the same old myths repeated. Things are so much better even today than 6 years ago when I got my Bashan. Most of my problems with it have been owner troubles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttD9zE2791E

[thumper650]

The Agility has been great. My friend who sold it to me hated it. It kept stalling on him, and would not start below 50 degrees outside. He had the maintenence done by a local dealer. They had the valves too tight.
I do like the looks of the Sym Tomos better, and it's way more comfortable.

[inuyasha]

Hi
Chinese scootsw have come quite a ways in terms of fit and finnish reliablity and quality control the past few years
My 2010 Puma was an awesome example and my 2014 Tao is a decent one much better then older scoots ive owned from chinese manufacturers
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank