Three Variator Weights?

[lykos23]

Original Post:
I've been reading up on variator weights for helpful hints and tips at finding the perfect combination and I stumbled on one post where someone only used 3 of 6 weights in their variator. So far my 4g sliders are on the way and I've been playing around with my 9g and 6g, even mixing them to test what would happen. No matter what, my 9g rollers make it so I can't go over 25mph uphill, and I lose 1mph topend because I can't accelerate fast enough to reach my top speed.

So I was wondering if I could possibly utilize only 3 of my 9g roller weights to achieve a 4.5g equivalent just to toy around with. Will this damage my variator? If there's any risk of damage I'll just wait for my 4g sliders to combine with my 9gs in order to attain a 6.5g, which is 5.5g roller equivalent.Update:
I hope nobody thinks I forgot to update here ;)

I got my 38 idle jet, v slides, and all my weights now and I think I'm going to have to re test all my speeds since I'm now able to take the tape off of my filter without bogging out my idle.

Starting with all 4g weights, at 267lbs on a 2009 peace sports 50, 63cc scooter, only now with an unrestricted freeflow filter.

4g:
35mph uphill, 33mph GPS

40mph flat terrain, 36mph GPS

45mph downhill, 39mph GPS


Three 4g and three 9g:

32mph uphill, 28mph GPS

40mph flat terrain, 37mph GPS

50mph downhill, 43mph GPS


Six 9g:

30mph up hill, 25mph GPS

40mph flat terrain, 38mph GPS

47mph downhill, 40mph GPS


Three 4g sliders and Three 6.5g rollers:

33mph uphill,

~40mph flat terrain, 37mph GPS

48mph downhill,

I've finished the first phase of testing!

[lykos23]

I tried and holy hell is there a difference!

30+ uphill, 37+ on flat terrain, 50mph downhill! Not to mention the incredible takeoff.


I can't wait to get my 4g sliders:yay:

[techie610]

Lighter Weights make for fast take off and accl.
Heavier weights have more top speed.
Most of the time, anyways. But if you tweak you CVT, there are too many possibilities to count. not to mention, different bike, rider and bike weights, and environmental changes.

Sliders also have a different effect than rollers, even at the same weight.
Keep us posted with your findings. :)

[lykos23]

Lighter Weights make for fast take off and accl.
Heavier weights have more top speed.
Most of the time, anyways. But if you tweak you CVT, there are too many possibilities to count. not to mention, different bike, rider and bike weights, and environmental changes.

Sliders also have a different effect than rollers, even at the same weight.
Keep us posted with your findings. :)

Well, after some searching through google and other forums, I've found other scooter riders that have tried using only 3 weights in their variator as opposed to the usual six, and what it seems to do is simply divide the weight in half while doubling the speed in which they wear out. Since I'll only be using 3 weights for less than a week I'm not worried about wearing them out, especially since I only need 3 of them and I have another 3 in my pack.

Right now I'm using dr. pulley 9g sliders, and I'm only using 3 of them inside my variator. Doing so has increased my speed and takeoff dramatically.

With six 6.5g rollers my top speed is about 45mph downhill (though I've hit 50mph in a few instances), my flat terrain speed is about 35mph, and uphill I go around 29-30mph.

With six 9g sliders my takeoff is slow, my flat terrain speed is barely 34mph (because I can't go higher between stopsigns or stoplights), my uphill speed is barely 25mph, and downhill I can barely go 44mph.

With 3 6.5g rollers and 3 9g sliders my speed is a bit better, I can go around 25mph uphill, 35 on flat terrain, and about 44-45mph downhill. It's very similar to just using six 9g sliders.

Now I'm using just three 9g sliders (which should be equivalent to 6 4.5g sliders) and everything is dramatically faster. I can almost hit 40mph on flat terrain, I go 30-35mph uphill, and I can hit 50mph downhill with ease.

When my 4g sliders arrive I plan on mixing them with my 9g to attain a 6.5g slider combination, this is equal in weight to my 6.5g rollers which should mean it is equivalent to 5.5g rollers which will increase my takeoff by a bit, and since they're dr. pulley my topend should be higher despite being lighter than stock. It is incredible the difference these small tweaks do.

I'll update once I finally get my 4g sliders in the mail.

[qwertydude]

The way the weights are spread out is not symmetrical. I don't advise running like that. It causes uneven pressure on the belt and excess vibration that doesn't seem bad at first but that can cause severe damage should any parts fail catastrophically.

[qwertydude]

The optimum people usually run with stock variators are 5-6 gram rollers or 6 gram sliders.

[techie610]

Well, if the weights are evenly spaced, then it would be symmetrical..
The weight of choosing depends on the riders weight and location.

I am running, in a GY6 150, 3 14.5 Sliders, and 3 17 Rollers.
Started out as just a test, but worked out great for me.

[lykos23]

Now I'm just confused. Will running sans 3 weights for less than a week ruin my parts or no? It seems symmetrical to me, and it appears to not have extra vibration, but I'm no expert.

I've seen a lot of different posts by a lot of different people with a lot of different weight variations. Most of the posts I read the person utilized 4g roller weights in order to sacrifice some topend for acceleration. With a technical 4.5g weight combination currently my setup is ALMOST satisfactory.

I weigh around 250lbs, so figuring out the best weight combination is perplexing to me. Too heavy and I can't go up hills and my acceleration is incredibly slow, too light and I lose my topend. According to what I've experienced, 5.5g rollers or 6.5g sliders would seemingly be my personal best bet.

[qwertydude]

You may not feel the vibration but it does do it, the majority of engine vibrations are damped by the rubber suspension bushings. The big problem is it putting uneven pressure on the variator this can lead to very quick wear on the belt, especially if you're still running a stock belt. Definitely get a gates or bando. It's the number one recommendation on the first part to replace. The belt is nearly impossible to replace on the road so if it breaks you're stranded. That's why you shouldn't run with three weights.

[lykos23]

You may not feel the vibration but it does do it, the majority of engine vibrations are damped by the rubber suspension bushings. The big problem is it putting uneven pressure on the variator this can lead to very quick wear on the belt, especially if you're still running a stock belt. Definitely get a gates or bando. It's the number one recommendation on the first part to replace. The belt is nearly impossible to replace on the road so if it breaks you're stranded. That's why you shouldn't run with three weights.

Well, I took out the three weights as per your advice and replaced them with my six stock rollers.

I'm back to my old speeds and all is boring once again... -sigh-

[techie610]

Well, I took out the three weights as per your advice and replaced them with my six stock rollers.

I'm back to my old speeds and all is boring once again... -sigh-

If the 3 weights are in every other channel, then the varo will spin evenly..
Yes, they will wear faster, but not in a weeks time. And I see no evidence that it will hurt your bike.
However, since you have the opportune moment, why not test it?
Lets us know what happens, so we don't have to guess.

Also, are you using a rubber or Kevlar?
Kevlar belts last longer, and react better, without the slippage that rubbers have.

[lykos23]

If the 3 weights are in every other channel, then the varo will spin evenly..
Yes, they will wear faster, but not in a weeks time. And I see no evidence that it will hurt your bike.
However, since you have the opportune moment, why not test it?
Lets us know what happens, so we don't have to guess.

Also, are you using a rubber or Kevlar?
Kevlar belts last longer, and react better, without the slippage that rubbers have.

I felt it was common sense to space the sliders apart so the weight distribution was even, and I think you're right.

I just came back from the store, and I think I'm going to go back to having 3 weights temporarily. There's just an incredible speed difference between my rollers and sliders. If my variator breaks, well I planned on getting a racing variator anyway. If my belt breaks then that will be surprising because it's not even a thousand miles old. I have a Gates Powerlink belt, and driving around all day with three weights didn't seem to do any immediate damage to anything.

However, I have a new problem. I'm missing just one of my variator v slides. I don't know how long it has been missing, but I just noticed it. I immediately ordered new ones from Absolutely Scooters since they're located only an hour away (only slightly too far to drive on my scooter, argh!) but I'm not even sure if it's safe to drive without them. I've apparently been driving without it for a while now.

I'm going to lay off of driving for a while without that slide, and if any damage occurs I won't know if it's from using 3 weights or from missing a v slide. :no:

[techie610]

Running the weights is fine, but I wouldn't run without that V-Slide.
But you can get them cheap.
About half way down the list :
http://www.scrappydogscooters.com/Replacement_Parts.html

[lykos23]

Running the weights is fine, but I wouldn't run without that V-Slide.
But you can get them cheap.
About half way down the list :
http://www.scrappydogscooters.com/Replacement_Parts.html


Thanks, but I already ordered them for $3 from Absolutely-Scooters in Elgin. They're located only an hour from me, so I should get the v slides tomorrow.

[50cc]

perhaps the vario spit the v-glider out since they're not pushed evenly against the plate while decelerating. i'd run it with three rollers for a week, but not with only three sliders since they tend to flip if you run only half of them. and anyway, engineers know better, so i'd wait for the 6 x 4g

[lykos23]

perhaps the vario spit the v-glider out since they're not pushed evenly against the plate while decelerating. i'd run it with three rollers for a week, but not with only three sliders since they tend to flip if you run only half of them. and anyway, engineers know better, so i'd wait for the 6 x 4g

The V-slide missing is 100% due to my clumsiness. Long ago I removed my variator for the first time and I put it back on. Just the other day I found a small plastic thing on the floor and threw it away because I couldn't identify it. Just about two days ago I noticed that the v-slide has been missing all along.

So far there has been no damage from missing a v-slide or from using only 3 sliders, but it's only a matter of time because the fact is both factors increase the rate in which the parts wear out. Every time I take a ride now I've been checking my variator just to make sure nothing has gone wrong with my little experiment and so far so good.

I wish I could wait, but I just can't. My scooter is my only vehicle and I have to drive it even if it kills me or the cycle. That is why I'm willing to risk a variator or belt just to maintain traffic speeds. My only other option is to ride my Honda Zook, and that thing isn't street legal...

[lykos23]

Got my 4g slider weights today, along with some v-slides. Unfortunately the v-slides are GY6 150 ones and not the ones I need...

Now that my weight setup should be perfect I have to wait to ride. Oh well...

[lykos23]

Keep us posted with your findings. :)

I hope nobody thinks I forgot to update here ;)

I got my 38 idle jet, v slides, and all my weights now and I think I'm going to have to re test all my speeds since I'm now able to take the tape off of my filter without bogging out my idle.

Starting with all 4g weights, at 267lbs on a 2009 peace sports 50, 63cc scooter, only now with an unrestricted freeflow filter.

4g:
35mph uphill

40mph flat terrain

45mph downhill


Three 4g and three 9g:

32+mph uphill, 28mph GPS

40mph flat terrain, 37mph GPS

50mph downhill, 43mph GPS

Next I'll try all 9s again. I'll probably be updating this post all day so I can finally compile my findings. :)

[lykos23]

Ironic... Now that I try to test all the speeds of the weights without the variable of a restricted freeflow and now my speedometer puck is broken... Ugh.

First it started driving with the speedo indicator stick shaking back and forth and now it's just unresponsive. Gonna have to buy a new puck. -sigh-

[lykos23]

Since my speedo puck broke I decided to use my tablet and the app "Ulysse's speedometer" to test what speed I'm going. I can't look at the thing while I'm driving, but at the end of the trip I'm able to see my top speeds.

So I've been driving on long stretches of consistent roads and pulling over and checking what speed I've been going. Then I jot it down on paper so I don't forget, and then once I'm done I bring it here for you guys to check out.

I'll be adding the above post with all my speeds to the first post of this forum and probably updating as I test these weights and their true capacities.

[techie610]

Good work with the whole experiment. :)
Sucks you speedo broke. But, GPS is ALWAYS better. Cannot go by the stock gauges on these things.

[lykos23]

Good work with the whole experiment. :)
Sucks you speedo broke. But, GPS is ALWAYS better. Cannot go by the stock gauges on these things.
Thanks Techie, I'm working hard on getting accurate results here. How low do you think I can go in weights? I'm thinking that maybe having only three 4g weights would be just one gram too light to even push the variator, but I'm willing to test it, haha.

I knew the speedo was off slightly, but I had no idea it was off by so much. It has made the difference in my decision to get a bigger bbk. I thought I was going 50mph and here I'm going a measly 42mph or so. I'm thankful I decided to get a tablet with gps in it.

[techie610]

I don't think I would run 3 4g weights..
Not that you cant, but since your more than 220lbs, and its a 50, you would be running the RPMs pretty high..
Is the rest of the CVT stock?
What is the tire size?
Do you have an unrestricted CDI?

And is you riding area more flat or hill?

[lykos23]

I don't think I would run 3 4g weights..
Not that you cant, but since your more than 220lbs, and its a 50, you would be running the RPMs pretty high..
Is the rest of the CVT stock?
What is the tire size?
Do you have an unrestricted CDI?

And is you riding area more flat or hill?
Makes sense, haha.

The rest of my cvt is stock, I've only got slider weights and 2k clutch springs. My CDI is unrestricted. My tire size is 3.5-10, they're brand new pirelli's :D

I've got whole town plotted out for rides, where I've got a huge hill by the polish village, a long straight stretch of road near my house, and I've always got the main road of 120 to test my flat terrain speeds on. The places I usually go it's pretty flat terrain.

Right now I'm running the six 4g weights and I'm kinda liking them better than my mixed setup. I think that will all change though when I get my 50mm bbk.

[techie610]

10in. tires are to small for my liking. Barely like my 12s.. -_-
How much of a difference did you see when you put in the 2k Clutch Springs?
Might want to install a 1.5k Torque Spring, as well.
If you are happy with the 4g weights, then probably leave them in. Try 5g, for more top end speed. And with that, you should be fine in near flat terrain. If you do the new Torque spring, you might like the 5g weight better anyways.
What are your RPMs at when your hitting 45 and 50 MPH?
Also, maybe look into a more open exhaust system.

[lykos23]

10in. tires are to small for my liking. Barely like my 12s.. -_-
How much of a difference did you see when you put in the 2k Clutch Springs?
Might want to install a 1.5k Torque Spring, as well.
If you are happy with the 4g weights, then probably leave them in. Try 5g, for more top end speed. And with that, you should be fine in near flat terrain. If you do the new Torque spring, you might like the 5g weight better anyways.
What are your RPMs at when your hitting 45 and 50 MPH?
Also, maybe look into a more open exhaust system.
My tires are supposedly wide for how small they are which makes them nice for going high speeds, I feel stable as could be. But that could just be because my peace sports is a huge upgrade from my 8" or so wheels on my Honda Zook.

I was thinking of getting a new torque spring, but that won't fit in my bbk budget and they only have 150cc torque springs to buy with my Amazon credit. I'm definitely getting one, it's just a matter of time and such.

Huge difference when I put in my clutch springs. I used to lag behind traffic at every stop light, but now I'm about on par with the other cars. I get way better takeoff than before, it's just incredible.

I read horror stories of people ruining their engine with a performance exhaust without a bbk, so I'm going to be getting a performance exhaust with my bbk. This is part of the next order I'm making, unless I find a better bbk somewhere else:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AYRZJPU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3M9NXSSW7AH0E

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A2OJ5R8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ABXFT02JRY7L

Then I got some piston ring installers, calipers, a new iridium spark plug, and a new set of feeler gauges since I seem to have lost mine, in the cart.

Oh, and I have no idea what my rpms are because I have no tachometer :(

[techie610]

The thing about 10in tires, is that it takes more RPMs to be at the same speed of a 12in. Plus, they ride rougher.
I enjoyed my 2k Clutch Springs on my 80cc 2t.

I have not had a problem, on 7 scoots, with unrestricting my Ex.
On my Falcon 150, I opened the Ex. case, cut the baffles out, but left the Fiberglass and steel screen, and cut .25 of the pipe off the end. bolted it back together and it runs better. Wonderfully better, with more top speed. Plus, being shortened, it looks better too. lol :)

That's a good looking BBK, and the price is nice, as well.
Hope you get it soon. :)

[lykos23]

Again, makes sense. I hope my pirelli's last despite "riding rough". Ever since I upgraded the tires it's like riding on air, even when hitting big bumps. And my scooter used to shake excessively when hitting high speeds, like 40 or over, with the new tires that doesn't happen.

I'm really looking forward to getting a performance exhaust, but it's in the same cart as my bbk so I might as well wait 'til I install the bbk to install the exhaust, otherwise I have to install it twice, haha. I've got my #90 jet and I'm all ready to go.

My family isn't so agreeing with me upping the power of my scooter with a bbk, after I tell them I already can go up to 43mph they're scared to death of me going faster. They also refuse to acknowledge the good price. :no:

But, next paycheck I get I'm determined to get that bbk, come hell or highwater. With the extra ccs I plan on going to the DMV and finally getting my L class driver's license.

Since the second speedo puck I ordered is coming in the mail I was brave enough to partially disassemble my current speedo puck and bend the thingies back. I now have a working speedometer again! Time to go test my 9g weights to finally finish this experiment.

[techie610]

Pirellis are great tires. You should be pleased with them.
What PSI are you putting them at?|

My girl is the same about the scoot. She wants to ride though, but is scared too try. She doesn't think I should be doing 60 on it, since they are small and such. However, I am a dude. And will I listen to her? Negative.
If I can do 60+mph on it, im good for now. I keep it for the MPGs and the sheer fun. :)
Plus, if it dies, its only $500 +/-. If my cars die, 1 is near $900 and they other?... I don't know... lol

Glad you got your Speedo working. Might want to GPS again, just to see how far it is off.

[lykos23]

Pirellis are great tires. You should be pleased with them.
What PSI are you putting them at?|

My girl is the same about the scoot. She wants to ride though, but is scared too try. She doesn't think I should be doing 60 on it, since they are small and such. However, I am a dude. And will I listen to her? Negative.
If I can do 60+mph on it, im good for now. I keep it for the MPGs and the sheer fun. :)
Plus, if it dies, its only $500 +/-. If my cars die, 1 is near $900 and they other?... I don't know... lol

Glad you got your Speedo working. Might want to GPS again, just to see how far it is off.

My old tires were 36 max psi, so I would keep them at 33, my pirelli's max is 47 and my grandfather insists I don't go higher than 40.

My mother tried riding my scooter once, and within 15 seconds she had ditched it in the side of the road and scraped herself.

I don't have a car just because of those costs, haha. Sure I've put over $200 into my scooter, but it's damn worth it just for reliability's sake. $200 in car parts is nothing, but I've almost rebuilt my scooter now with the little parts I've replaced here and there. According to my mother I've damn near rebuilt the whole thing, but in reality I have yet to even replace the carburetor. My computer processor upgrade cost $200, a measly $70 for a bbk seems like a miraculous deal for some more speed and power.

First I had trouble getting the thing to go over 25, as you've seen from my progress thread. Then I had trouble getting it to takeoff at stoplights. Now I'm just trying to get it to the point that I don't have to go WOT 100% of the time to keep up with traffic. A bbk and performance exhaust should be well worth it if I achieve that goal.

And I'm definitely going to be comparing my speedo to the gps to see exactly how far off it is and if there is some consistency to it at least.

[techie610]

Typically, I run the rear tire about 10% off of the max. Then the front tire just a few lighter. That's how I have ran all my bikes, from bicycles to Honda shadows.

[lykos23]

Typically, I run the rear tire about 10% off of the max. Then the front tire just a few lighter. That's how I have ran all my bikes, from bicycles to Honda shadows.
I'll keep that in mind. I'll probably inflate my rear tire to 43 then and leave my front tire at 40 in that case.

Right after I'm done testing out the 9g weights as I don't want another variable in testing my speeds 'cause otherwise I won't be able to convert the weights into percentages and whatnot.

[techie610]

Of course. For proper results, you need to have the least amount of variables for the test course, when focusing on one particular.
Otherwise you would have something with to many output configs.
Such as : (A^x)+({B^y}+C^z) =/~ [N] Where N does not equal Zero.
But, who cares about that.. lol xD

At the moment, do you have an idea of when your going to be proceeding with the BBK?

[lykos23]

Of course. For proper results, you need to have the least amount of variables for the test course, when focusing on one particular.
Otherwise you would have something with to many output configs.
Such as : (A^x)+({B^y}+C^z) =/~ [N] Where N does not equal Zero.
But, who cares about that.. lol xD

At the moment, do you have an idea of when your going to be proceeding with the BBK?

Haha, totally. Logic just makes sense sometimes xD

I plan on ordering the bbk some time this weekend and installing it as soon as it arrives. I'm also thinking about doing the whole thing over some kind of live broadcast site if I can find one. Otherwise I'll just record my process and probably upload it to youtube. It'll be my first bbk so I'm hoping to have some recording of me doing it so that maybe somebody else can pinpoint a mistake if I make any.

I finished testing my 9g weights. All that's left are my stock 6g weights, but those are hardly worth testing, except to compare to the superior dr. pulley weights.

[techie610]

The funny thing about Logic, is that SOMETIMES its just Logical.
lmao My SSG used to say that.
I would most definitely record it.
Are your 6g weights rollers?
A while back, I had mixed rollers and sliders in the same varo. I did it for laughs, and someone said not to.. Anyway, it turned out pretty great.
If you have the time, you should try it.
Three 6g roller weights, altering between three 4g slider weights.
Its a whole different feeling.

[techie610]

Here is a thread with the link of how it went.
I never did finish the rest of what I wanted to do, simply because of a personal emergency, and fundings for it.
This hobby can get expensive. -_-

http://www.scootdawg.net/showthread.php?t=53231

[lykos23]

That's pretty cool, Techie, I tried doing this once, but it was 9g sliders with 6.5g rollers and it wasn't that great. It had the sluggish acceleration of the 9g but the takeoff of the 6.5g.

Right now I tried the 4g with the 6.5g and it was pretty nice. Very, very smooth acceleration. My GPS said I was going a whopping 74mph, haha. Obviously my gps app is buggy.

Uphill was 33mph, downhill was a nice 48mph, and flat was around 40mph