Flattering Fraud

[jdikov]

Here is the situation and we need advice:

We sell our scooters to dealers all over the US. Recently we were approached by a dealer who wanted to buy scooters from us and we had to turn him down because he was located in the same territory as an existing dealer.:shrug: (Unlike some scooter distributors, we protect the territory of existing dealers) Well this dealer was not happy at being turned down so he is now advertising a scooter that is not ours but using our name and reputation in his ad.:wtf: This of course angers our dealer who has spent a lot of time and money developing the name in his area.>:

So not only is this dealer misrepresenting his product by pretending that it comes from us but he is also dissing his current supplier by not using their name. Now I'm flattered and all that our reputation is desirable but fraud is fraud. We don't have lawyers and patent and trademarks or any of that stuff. We are a small family run business that has worked hard for the last 10 years to develop our reputation. We are not the type to sue people as too many in this coutry have become. So really not sure what recourse we have or our dealer has other then the Amish approach. We can only hope that this dealer is shunned into shame by the scooter community.:shrug2:

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Forgot to mention the dealer doing the nasty is Scooters to go in Gran Rapids MI

thanks,
John Dikov

[Grand Rapids Scooter]

This is Jason, Owner of Grand Rapids Scooter, I am the local dealer that has sold and promoted the Amore 50 locally in Grand Rapids Michigan. We get the Amore 49cc scooters from John (above) at Valley Scooters. I wanted to ad that while we are used to "Scooters To Go" piggy-backing on many of our marketing campaigns locally, flagging all our cragslist ads, talking bad about us to anyone who will listen and under cutting prices, I feel Scooters To Go has crossed yet another line here.

If I was a consumer I would be outraged! Not only is Scooters 2 Go Lying to you before you even walk through the door of their business by advertising Znen Amore scooters when they KNOW they are NOT an Amore scooter, they are also destroying importer's livelyhoods and YOUR CHOICES as a consumer!

I chose John and Linda at Valley Scooters to get our scooters from for 2 reasons. They cared about quality and they cared about people.

Help me help them, continue to be one of the very few companies bringing in high quality Chinese moped scooters with the best specs and value. You deserve the choice to buy the best Value (price/quality/warranty) moped scooters in the market today.

Please reply to this post with your opinion/input. Feel free to post in other forums as well.

How would you feel if you were sold an "Amore" scooter that you researched online and for $300 less than you could buy it anywhere else. Then, discovered it wasn't really an "Amore" and it lacked many of the features and quality components that the REAL "Amore" scooters have?
BTW: You would have little legal recourse and would be stuck with your purchase.

Let's shame Scooters 2 Go in Grand Rapids Michigan to start doing the right thing! SOUND OFF!>:(

Jason
Grand Rapids Scooter

[scootnwinn]

Wish I was closer I would help more. I know we have a lot of members from Michigan and I am certain karma has that guy's address so no worries he will reap what he sows..

[Grand Rapids Scooter]

CL (http://www.craigslist.org/about/sites) > grand rapids (http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/) > all for sale / wanted (http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/sss/) > motorcycles/scooters - by dealer (http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/mcd/)
ReplyReply to: tnwpp-3699269628@sale.craigslist.org (tnwpp-3699269628@sale.craigslist.org?subject=Znen%20Amor e'%2050cc!%20Brand%20New%20Moped%20%2F%20Scooter.% 20BEST%20PRICE%20IN%20TOWN.%20-%20%24999%20(Grand%20Rapids)&body=%0A%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fgrandrapids.craigslist.org %2Fmcd%2F3699269628.html%0A) [? (http://www.craigslist.org/about/help/replying_to_posts)]

flag [? (http://www.craigslist.org/about/help/flags_and_community_moderation)] : miscategorized (https://post.craigslist.org/flag?flagCode=16&postingID=3699269628) prohibited (https://post.craigslist.org/flag?flagCode=28&postingID=3699269628) spam (https://post.craigslist.org/flag?flagCode=15&postingID=3699269628) best of (https://post.craigslist.org/flag?flagCode=9&postingID=3699269628)
Posted: 2013-03-23, 1:56PM EDT
Znen Amore' 50cc! Brand New Moped / Scooter. BEST PRICE IN TOWN. - $999 (Grand Rapids)

http://images.craigslist.org/thumb/3Id3N93H95Nc5H55J5d3n05f91bd9ea111192.jpg (http://images.craigslist.org/3Id3N93H95Nc5H55J5d3n05f91bd9ea111192.jpg)http://images.craigslist.org/thumb/3Gb3F93H15Lc5Jb5M3d3n72ec4950ab4f1e57.jpg (http://images.craigslist.org/3Gb3F93H15Lc5Jb5M3d3n72ec4950ab4f1e57.jpg)http://images.craigslist.org/thumb/3K43L53J15G55Ec5F8d3n32056217dc751cf6.jpg (http://images.craigslist.org/3K43L53J15G55Ec5F8d3n32056217dc751cf6.jpg)http://images.craigslist.org/thumb/3E43I13L55L85G75Hfd3nd6610ea9cff614b1.jpg (http://images.craigslist.org/3E43I13L55L85G75Hfd3nd6610ea9cff614b1.jpg)http://images.craigslist.org/thumb/3K83Gd3L65I75G85Mbd3ne2b7d4a75f7d1ace.jpg (http://images.craigslist.org/3K83Gd3L65I75G85Mbd3ne2b7d4a75f7d1ace.jpg)http://images.craigslist.org/thumb/3Fe3J93H65Ib5J15Mdd3n1f975af913251d12.jpg (http://images.craigslist.org/3Fe3J93H65Ib5J15Mdd3n1f975af913251d12.jpg)http://images.craigslist.org/thumb/3E33J83N25Le5G25Ecd3n6e86db8cea2f1cb8.jpg (http://images.craigslist.org/3E33J83N25Le5G25Ecd3n6e86db8cea2f1cb8.jpg)
http://images.craigslist.org/3Id3N93H95Nc5H55J5d3n05f91bd9ea111192.jpg
Brand NEW 50cc Moped / Scooter.

These ride and look like a motorcycle!

BLACK PEARL!! PAINT JOB.

MADE BY ZNEN. GREAT QUALITY .

Call SCOOTERS TO GO at:
877.569.5691

or stop by at

Scooters To Go
7085 Division Ave
Grand Rapids, MI 49548


Location: Grand Rapids
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
THIS IS NOT AN "Amore" Scooter!!!!!!!!!!! No Trunk, No foot plates, no chrome muffler, no chrome gear case cover and that's JUST what I can tell from the picture! How many other engine, electrical or transmission specs it lacks is unknown but clearly, it is NOT an Amore scooter from Valley Scooters! No wonder they can sell it for $300 Less:lmao:

[Admin]

Some people.. >:

I would contact the BBB (Better Business Bureau).


And if they're using your name or brand, unauthorized in any way, I would send them a Cease & Desist letter immediately. If you don't want to have one written up by a lawyer, just find one online and adjust it to suit your needs. ;)

[cookees]

I'll flag em every day... I would suggest my fellow dawgs do the same.

[jdikov]

Thing is we don't have all that expensive stuff like trademarks and patents etc... If we spent money on that we would either be selling at a lot higher price or just be out of business. It is a shame that people cannot just do business the old fashioned way, HONESTLY. If we had more of that and a lot less lawyers and paperwork everything would be less expensive.

[Grand Rapids Scooter]

Thank you Cookees, we appreciate the help in protecting ALL of us effected by this type of business practice! If you ever need anything, let me know.

Jason
Grand Rapids Scooter

[prodigit]

Sorry guys, live in FL here. Wish I could help, but hardly think that a public scooter forum is the appropriate place to discuss disputes.
If they don't hear in private, a lawyer is your best way out.
If it is true that the other company is in wrong, and refuses to cooperate in his slander of your company, a lawyer can take the case at no cost to the winner of the case.
If you have been wronged, you most likely will be the winner of the case, and the lawyer cost could easily be paid by the settlement sum of the ruling.

[scootnwinn]

a cease and desist letter costs nothing and them using your name is enough wrong to ask them to stop

[Grand Rapids Scooter]

I appreciate your input and suggestions prodigit. You make a valid point. However, my personal views prevent me from "Lawyering Up" everytime someone steps on my toes. I also think this is the perfect forum for discussing this travesty that is occurring in the scooter market. It hurts innocent consumers, it hurts ethical dealers and it hurts ALL importers. Keeping quiet about it just enables companies to operate in this dispicable manner and encourages many others to do the same.

Consumer's voices will ultimately determine my business' fate as well as all of ours, not a lawyer or a judge.

Jason
Grand Rapids Scooter

[bintelli]

Karma will get them in the end. I wouldn't even let it bother me.

[amac1680]

John,
Unlike many you are looking to protect your dealer network. Kudos to you! Funny thing I noticed just today that pricing is no longer on your website. I assume that is also to protect and encourage sales through your dealers. Again thats great, nothing worse than being a stocking dealer and competing against your supplier.

Jason,
I'll flag the post every time I see it and ask others to do the same.

All the best to both of you.

Be Big,
AMAC

[qwertydude]

A cease and desist letter is not "lawyering up" it's something you type or print on your own. It's simply a warning. Most people will take them seriously enough. If they are not delivering a real Amore 50 then that is plain and simple false advertising.

One thing I might recommend that definitely affects tons of businesses here that doesn't cost much but relies on the good will of local communities is yelp pages. If they have a yelp page people here can leave comments and reviews. Yelp is now known to make or break businesses in big cities. Grand Rapids is a big enough city with enough web savvy young'uns wanting to get into scootering that any scooter place that won't listen to a cease and desist letter would most definitely take notice of a bad yelp review.

The reason being a cease and desist letter doesn't hit them in the pocket book as immediately as a bad yelp review.

[Grand Rapids Scooter]

I agree with your comment and have sent John a form letter to use if he wishes.
From your post, I'm sure you'll enjoy this video....

http://smallbizazz.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-tribes-we-lead-seth-godin.html

Jason
Grand Rapids Scooter

[teddy554]

i posted this one there fb page a review i found online edit i did delete this post on fb
My 17 yr old son bought a scooter about a month ago from Jerry at Scooters 2 go on Didvision in GR. They had advertised a scooter my son was interested in for $699. (my son had saved up $900 last year for buying a scooter this spring) Jarod, my son wanted to go to Scooters 2 Go by himself though I offered to go with him. He insisted on doing it himself which of I was proud of. When my son arrived home on his new scooter he began to tell me how things went. He was smiling ear to ear about his first "big" purchase. When I asked how much money it left him in out of the money he saved up he said just a few dollars....Turns out he told Jerry about saving up money all year for it and even bragged how much he saved to him. Well this sleeze bag must have seen my son coming a mile away...still not real savvy when it comes to purchase transactions this large, he believed every word Jerry from Scooters 2 Go said when he told him that the price on this one (even though advertised for $699) was $849....$900 with tax. WOW, exactly the same amount my son had svaed up. I immediately went back on Craigslist to see if the same moped scooter was still advertised by them and sure enough, the exact model my son bought still being advertised for $699!!!

[fastscoot]

This is Jerry with Scooters To Go. Once again I must defend myself against the actions of Grand Rapids Scooter. They have accused me of all sorts of misdeeds which are false in addition to posting two fraudulent claims with Ripoff Report. The last posting on this forum was one of Jason's from a year or so ago. Complete lie. No such customer ever existed. Same with the second.

Let me begin by stating that we probably shouldn't have posted this particular scooter as an Amore' (please notice the apostrophe). Valley Scooters has chosen to name their scooter the Amore (please notice the LACK of apostrophe). Obviously this has led to some confusion by people who can't read or only read what they want. It is like resume and resume', two completely different words. Our future ads will be more specific and say "compare to Amore". The fact is, they are made by ZNEN just like Valley's, Puma's, BMS's and a few more importers. While ours may be missing some bling as noted by John, it shows up in the price. Greater variety and pricing pressure benefits the consumer.

Secondly, I am not disgruntled by Valley choosing not to sell scooters to me. In fact, I respect the fact that they do offer a protected territory. Grand Rapids Scooter basically got into business by duplicating my business model and purchasing the same scooters I offered while selling out of their garage because I was not selling brands that provided territorial protection. They had no commercial property expenses, no liability insurance in the event someone gets hurt on a test drive, no garage liability if they forgot to tighten an axle nut and some poor guy got run over. Oh, and of course, they would always price just below me. In addition, they were so abusive and defamatory on Craigslist last year my attorney had to send them a letter warning them to Cease and Desist! It appears that I will now pay the lawyer again. It has become a cost of doing business these days for those of us who lead our markets. Competitors don't like it when you beat them and right away they are on the internet spreading lies, partial truths or gossiping (usually anonymously) about you.

I placed a call to Valley Scooters and spoke with Linda just a few weeks ago when I discovered that Grand Rapids Scooter had signed an exclusive territory agreement with Puma Motorsport. Puma carries a similar line of ZNEN manufactured scooters as Valley. I was just wondering if Valley was willing to sell me scooters in light of the fact that their old dealer could now purchase the same products for substantially less money (Puma is known as the lowest price among ZNEN importers). If I were either Puma or Valley I would cut the retailer loose because I know they can't and won't sell enough of my product to be worth the time- especially if there is another retailer a few miles away who sells at least 3x as many scooters and has been around for many years. That is a business decision they get to make. Valley said they were going to stick with Grand Rapids Scooter so I went on and located another ZNEN importer. I have the ability to price these units at $999 and look who is complaining- my competition! As John Stossel would say "Give me a break!"

[scootnwinn]

Ahh the plot thickens. I wish there was a scooter dealer war closer to me...

[Guest_3]

Well this is a.... Guess Who Shit Their Pants moment. :hehe:

[cookees]

Can't wait to see how this plays out.
Was able to find a website for Grand rapids Scooters, but nothing for Scooters to Go.

[Grand Rapids Scooter]

John, Thank you for this post. It brought attention to the company in question and they now are more specific about their wording. I had an opportunity to put some performance upgrades on the "Jet" that they are urging customers to compare. So we wanted to help consumers do that exact thing. As of 5-10-2013, the answer to the following questions in our latest GRS ad is NO.

When comparing "Real" Amore moped Scooters manufactured by Znen but most importantly IMPORTED by Valley Scooters with other similar models offered locally for less, ask yourself this....
Does it come with aluminum foot plates?
How about aluminum kick plates?
Does it have a chrome gear case cover?
How about a deluxe chrome muffler?
Does it come with a Gates PowerLink belt?
Does it have a Halogen head light?
Does it come with a trunk at no additional charge?
How about 100% Fender-To-Fender Warranty for 1 Year or 3000 miles!?
Is it a current year model?
Does it have ALL exterior Stainless Steal Nuts, Bolts and screws?
Does it have ABS dual piston front disc brakes?
The real Motorino Amore produced by Znen and Imported by Valley Scooters (Motorino) can be found ONLY @ Grand Rapids Scooter in Grand Rapids, MI. It comes standard with ALL the above items plus...
Deni Carburators, Duro Tires, Aluminum Wheels and NGK Spark Plugs.

A big "Thanks!" to John of Valley Scooters defending their unique quality moped scooters manufactured by Znen. All Znen scooters are certainly NOT created equal!

[carasdad]

I live 30 mins from Scooters 2 Go and Grand Rapids Scooter. A local family bought 5 Scooters from them last year. The CY50T3 were all ok..EXCEPT..all hard warped rear wheels. Did some research and checked with a few dealers as well. Reason the wheels warped is that they are cast....and in a hurry to fill orders...were removed from the Mold too soon causing warpage. They were however replaced free from the company under warranty. As for the Peace Sports B09 they got...pure Lemon.Sitting outside right now for me to work on.MANY of the wires were pinched and shorted by fasteners and components screwed...bolted or Zip Tied to the frame. The wiring harness has more shorts than you can imagine. Right brake switch...tail lights shorted dead. Scooter would only start intermittently and shut off intermittently. While running if you hit a bump..or touched/move the wiring harness..it would shut off. testing with a multimeter while cranking showed no current. Wiggle the harness and it did.Fixed those shorts and found the Stator plug to be bad as well..connectors were not making good contact..so you would lose power to the lights...ignition or battery charging circuit separately and randomly each wire at its own time. Replaced both connectors..problem solved. The lights kept blowing..in which a test of the Voltage Regulator turned up bad. Replaced that and all works fine now. What is my point here? Answer...if a true PDI had been done..the faulty tail lights...head lights caused by shorts would have been noticed..as well as the poor stator connection causing intermittent loss of lighting...charging and loss of ignition...each separately and not all at the same time..they took turns malfunctioning. Not putting this all on the seller for as we all know most all Chinese Scoots come with a minor issue or two...but this one had WAY to many to not be noticed.
Seeing the add and price on Craigslist I decided to visit them and get another Scoot. Once there..the selling price was a few hundred dollars more than advertised.:hmm: My next trip will be to Grand Rapids Scooters to see how their customer service is and what they have to offer. Also to see if price quoted is the actual price once I get there.;)
Glenn

[carasdad]

Ok...I find Grand Rapids Scooter web site. It is a blogspot and when I click 'Home'..it goes to homepage and lists the Scoots they carry. If you click on one...the home page just refreshes and it does not show you any models you select. Do they have a web site that works...one where you can see what they have to offer?.. I find no web site at all for Scooters to go...do they have one? Bottom line is I can't find any online sites for either so that I may view what they carry... :(

[richardthescooter1]

I'd get the word out about there shady practices, put it on facebook!

[Grand Rapids Scooter]

Thank you for the input! My apologies for not having our website up to date! We have changed our line-up of scooters this year to ALL Znen made thus making a lot of the information on our website out dated.

I will get on this ASAP as I know over 200 people a day go their for information. You can also follow us on Facebook.com/GrandRapidsScooter for updates and more recent product information.

You are of course always welcome to stop by our store when you are in Grand Rapids to see and test drive any of the moped models we now carry.

Have a great day!

Jason

[Swordsman]

Let me begin by stating that we probably shouldn't have posted this particular scooter as an Amore' (please notice the apostrophe). Valley Scooters has chosen to name their scooter the Amore (please notice the LACK of apostrophe). Obviously this has led to some confusion by people who can't read or only read what they want. It is like resume and resume', two completely different words.

I originally had no intention of weighing in on this but ARE YOU FRIKKIN' KIDDING ME? :lmao:

That's quite possibly the saddest excuse I've ever heard in my entire life. So you think Microsoft would be okay if Google developed an OS called Wyndowes, or maybe Ford wouldn't mind if GM started building a Musstang?

At least you admitted it wasn't very bright. That much at least is true.

~SM

[cookees]

I'm now selling Vespah's...