My MC-13-250 has problems

[ykdavid]

Hey guys I told you guys some of you may remember I said I was getting a 250 that would shut off if the RPM's dropped below 2K. <-- well that deal went a way so I didn't get that scoot, but I still wanted one so I checked around and found an 07 Roketa BALI 250. It was kinda far off but I figured "what the hell" it runs so I could drive it home. <--DUMB anyways I get there the guy showed me the scoot every thing looked good it started up I test drove it down the street everything was fine. It was low priced at $700 I figured I'm getting a pretty good deal. So I buy it and start my ride home.

I went to the gas station down the street to fill up (premium gas)
I saw no problems.

next I got on the highway and got the scoot up to about 65mph and hung there. a little later I wanted to see how fast it would go so I got up to around 71-73ish.

A little after that the scoot died, it shut off while doing about 60mph and I coasted to a stop.

I sat for a second on the side of the road and thought maybe I flooded it or something.

I wanted to start it again so I held the break and hit the start button and it started after a try or two. when i pulled away "I noticed a lot of smoke coming form the muffler" I thought to myself that "if it continued I'd stop" but shortly after it stopped. So I rode on.

The scoot had me worried that I'd be stuck on side of the road. No one I knew had a truck to pick it up if it wouldn't run so I pressed on.

Next I started losing power "It didn't shut off like before" but it was slowly dying. After it dropped below 35mph I decided to kill it and pull over. I then decided to call the guy I bought it form less than an hour ago. I told everything you see above ^ . He said he would haul it home for me but could not take it back because he didn't know what I had did to it.

Once I got it home I started the scoot and drove up my driveway everything seemed fine it was pretty late at this point so I parked it and went to bed. The next morning I decided to take it around my neighborhood to see what was wrong with it. It started up and looked good but once I got up to 40mph the temperature was pegged but the power was back. So I thought to check the coolant the reservoir was full but when I looked under the seat I found a hole in the plastic filler. Upon further inspection I found rigging that left the radiator with no power source. The fan and fuel pump worked but I found nothing that would lead me to believe the radiator would work (it has a plug with nothing connection to it) I also found that the fuel pump was (wrong)aftermarket and was "resting" on the scoots underpinning.

What do you guys think?

[ykdavid]

http://oi45.tinypic.com/p2bly.jpg

[cheapeto]

Man it's an 07 when scoots coming from China were very hit or miss. It's obvious the guy had problems with it,right out of the gate, low miles older scoot.

I would tear her apart, and retrace all my wires, double check/or replace all hoses, replace the filters, clean the carb, reset the valves, hell myself, I'd clean out the gas tank to.
Put in fresh oil and final gear oil, check your belt and clutch area, maybe blow out all the dust in the clutch.

Man, I really hope you did not get a lemon, but that time frame, and before, was very hard on china scoot buyers. I got one myself, but a 2008 150 retro.

Good luck, I'm sure some of the smarter scooter mechanics will give you much better advice then mine, but thats where I would start at.

[spandi]

And you might (in addition to a new temperature sensor) swap out the CDI unit and pop in a Mikuni fuel pump.

[ykdavid]

can anyone tell me what this is http://oi47.tinypic.com/6z2b9c.jpg

and why it's making a "clicking noise" when i try to start my scoot?

[bandito2]

I believe that is the starter solenoid. It would make a clicking noise because it is an electro-mechanical switch. A little magnet sort of thing flips on a contact switch in the solenoid when you push the start button. Power to the magnetic switch comes through the key switch, then then the start button; then power to the starter comes from the battery through the solenoid switch.

The reason it is set up this way is because there would be too big of a draw of electricity trying to go through the key switch/start button wires to the starter. The wiring in your key switch/start button would not last long trying to put all that amperage through and would soon cook the switches and/or wires. Notice how heavy the wires are on the solenoid? There is a lot of juice that runs through there and if you trace the heavy red wire, it should go from the battery then through the solenoid and on to the starter. Should be a smaller red wire that goes to the solenoid as well; that is the positive wire from the key switch/starter button. Normally, the ground connection for the solenoid is on the casing of the solenoid. If it is not connected to the frame in some way, (the usually used grounding source) then the solenoid won't work and it won't turn the starter. If it does not normally connect to the frame, then there would likely be a smaller black ground wire to the solenoid too.

I remember in the old days when the old beater car had a bad solenoid, I'd just touch a big screwdriver across the two heavy duty connectors on the starter solenoid. It had the same effect as if the switch IN the solenoid worked and it would turn the starter over. But boy oh boy would there be sparks from doing that! :s

So there you go. Not only did you learn what it is, but also how it works and why it is used. :tup: :yay: :clap:
HTH

[bandito2]

Oh, also that plug on the radiator is either a temperature sender or the temperature sensing switch for the radiator fan. When you first just turn on the key with a cold engine, does the fan come on? If it does then the PO rigged it up that way because the temperature sensing switch is bad or the wires on the connector to it broke off and it was easier to just patch the wires together for full time fan operation. Or the connector itself broke or any number of other things that caused non-operation. Normally your fan should be off unless the coolant gets hot enough to activate the fan switch.

If the fan is running all the time then check the wires to the fan; I'd bet you find some wires twisted together and taped. If he went all out with his remedy then he may have used a crimp connector here and there. But the fan will eventually wear out if it runs ALL the time. :ugh:

You say your temperature was pegged? Check that when the engine is cold. If it is pegged when the engine is cold then that is another thing you'll need to correct. If not, then if you take another look at the the radiator, you may notice another one of those plugs in the radiator (or somewhere between the radiator and the engine) but with wires that are connected to it. That would be the temperature sender for the gauge and the one without wires to it is the temperature sensing switch for the fan. Or maybe he has swapped the temperature sensing switch wires for the fan switch wires and then (I think) the temp gauge would read either stone cold or pegged hot with no readings given in between because the fan switch is either off or on and the temperature sender has gradual electrical resistance depending on the coolant temperature. That resistance is converted into a graduated display of temperature on the gauge.

I don't really know anything about the particular manufacture brand of your scoot so I can't be specific about where things are or what they look like. :shrug:
But those temperature senders and temperature activated switches are pretty basic to water cooled engines.
HTH

[bandito2]

One more thing; the radiator does not need electrical power to work. It is passive. It works simply by having coolant pass through it so it can transfer the heat away. It does that by air passing by the tubing with cooling vanes on it in the radiator. The engine provides the power to the water/coolant pump that pushes the coolant around the engine to pick up the heat and then through the radiator to cool it and then back through the engine again. It's a continuous cycle.

If your water pump stops working, or the thermostat stays stuck closed then the coolant mostly just sits there and gathers more heat until it is too much. (then bad things can start to happen to the engine ) Actually a thermostat will stay closed and keep the coolant from flowing around until coolant heats up to operating temperature, then the thermostat opens and lets the coolant flow normally around the whole cooling system.

I hope you guys don't mind me going on and on like this but it seems some are just learning about how their machines work. Understanding how they work makes things less of a mystery and empowers them to fix things themselves. (or at least helps with knowing just what the hell is going on with their bike.) :nod:

[ykdavid]

I found a wire with to white and green ends connected to each other dangling near the radiator. I plugged them into the radiator they fit but not sure whats + or - . now when I turn the key all I hear is the fuel pump. (no fan) maybe that's fixed?

I also cleaned the starter last night. [THE SPRINGS WHERE A B!TCH TO PUT BACK IN!!!]

My biggest problem right now is getting it fired up again. I turn the key to the on position, the fuel pump comes on then when I hold down the break and push the start button.. CLIIIIIIIIIIICK.

[bandito2]

I found a wire with to white and green ends connected to each other dangling near the radiator. I plugged them into the radiator they fit but not sure whats + or - . now when I turn the key all I hear is the fuel pump. (no fan) maybe that's fixed?

I also cleaned the starter last night. [THE SPRINGS WHERE A B!TCH TO PUT BACK IN!!!]

My biggest problem right now is getting it fired up again. I turn the key to the on position, the fuel pump comes on then when I hold down the break and push the start button.. CLIIIIIIIIIIICK.


Maybe by plugging it in, it was fixed. But I thought you said the fan was working. Does that mean you for sure heard it running before you connected the wires into the plug on the radiator? What is your temp gauge doing now? (even though it's cold & not running but with the key turned on?)

On my bike the fan switch only has one wire going to it (Green) and my temp sender has two separate wires to it. (brown & white) (near the top of the radiator, but yours may be different somehow so don't expect yours to be exactly the same.) Mine is a Honda which very well may be different than yours in that way - you might look for your temperature sender there near the top of your radiator too. You might want to unplug those stray wires from the plug on the radiator again until you get a better idea about your starter. Those wires may not be correctly placed and could be running the battery down.

That cliiiiiick noise is coming from the starter and/or the solenoid and often is a symptom of a low battery. Or maybe you re-assembled the starter a little out of adjustment.

You could jump start it from a car battery, BUT! the car MUST BE TURNED OFF. Too much voltage comes from a running car and could ruin your electrics. If it still won't turn over when you do that then undo what you did with the starter and carefully put it back together paying close attention to the brushes (the things the springs push onto the contacts on the starter motor shaft) and the springs.

If anyone else here has a MC-13-250 or other scooter from this manufacturer, then It would be helpful to take a quick peek at the wires to the radiator fan and let us know what you see. Most things are often done the same or in a very similar way by a manufacturer on bikes of the same type though they're of different sizes.

Good luck with your repairs.

[jrryan]

I'll post the same answer here as I did at here:

Long story short someone has messed with this scooter. First of all the Bali 250 like a lot of scooters does not come with a electric fuel pump, they come with a vacuum pulse type pump. Some people do replace them with electric ones, myself I don't.

Second picture is the radiator and the brass colored switch is what is called the radiator thermo switch or sensor switch. When the radiator comes up to temp at around 167F this switch closes and turns the cooling fan on. It's apparent it's been unhooked and you mentioned the fan ran so it's been fixed to run all the time, not good as this will keep the battery down in most cases. In cold weather the fan won't even come on and in lots of cases isn't needed.

Last picture is the CDI part of the ignition system.

Smoke, temp pegged out all bad indicators of possible engine problems. This is the vertical 244cc cloned engine.


Not only do I know the wiring on this scooter wire per wire we have a wiring diagram for it and have a lot of members who know this engine and scooter well myself included.

JR

[ykdavid]

Since my last post I've got a battery charger and the scooter will start now. I've changed motor oil & gear oil and it runs smoother now. My scoot still overheats but since draining the radiator and refilling it takes longer. If you read my earlier posts I told you guys that I found the a wire not connecting the radiator that looked like it should so I connected it. now the fan never turns on so iv put the wire back now the fan starts running when I turn the key again. <-- I thought that would keep the temps down but not enough.

When draining/refilling the radiator I feel I did every thing right, I drained from the bottom. I made sure to get all the air out of the system when I refilled and for the most part the scoots temps run lower now but when I get around 45-50 the temps just climb the never come down. So on my test runs the scoot runs fine and does not overheat unless I get over 45.

Right now I feel if I stayed under 45 it would never overheat. <-- but that's not practical.

Anyone know whats wrong?


Read more: http://scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=200cc&thread=57838&page=1#567374#ixzz2LbL8fHQq

[Guest_3]

does not overheat unless I get over 45.


a bad head gasket or thermostat maybe ??. :shrug:

[ykdavid]

I'm not sure whats going on :(

[spandi]

I'm not quite clear on whats going on either. Two things, did you reconnect the temperature sensor and also in refilling the radiator did you burp your baby?


http://scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=200cc&action=print&thread=11911

[ykdavid]

I got the air out of it by running it and refilling it a few times. <-- Is that burping it?

[spandi]

I got the air out of it by running it and refilling it a few times. <-- Is that burping it?Yeah. Just as long as there is no air in the system. (give the radiator hoses a squeeze to make sure) Now what about the temp sensor? (the fan shouldn't be running continuously) and in your picture it's unplugged.

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o645/spandi5/Screenshot2013-02-22at23240PM_zps5ff8908d.png

[Guest_3]

If the fan is running all the time. You shouldn't be overheating above 45mph.

I would do a radiator pressure/leak test.

http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/grn/MITMV4560/image/2/

And a cylinder leak down test also.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4163NiT72bL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

You can rent these from most auto parts store. :)

[jrryan]

Why would you do a pressure test on a radiator that he didn't say was leaking?

He said he changed the oil and didn't mention any antifreeze in it so it doesn't have a blown head gasket. Not a stuck thermostat either, if it was the scooter would overheat just idling?

It's very simple, air in the system, the slightest amount will make it overheat especially after it's ran at higher RPM's.

We have a full proof burping how to where you first asked about this scooter and I know it well and before anyone asks, yes I have a scooter with this same exact engine/radiator set up along with two other water cooled scooters including the 250A and 250B with linhais.

JR

[spandi]

As usual JR your tech chops are dead on. (burp the baby) but I'm also thinking that the jury rigged wiring, no temperature sensor, and having the fan on all the time can't be good.

[jrryan]

Yes he needs to fix the thermo switch and re-wire the fan but at this point it's not an issue with the over heating. But in the long run it will cause weak battery issues because unlike the other popular 250 engine the linhai this engine's charging system is weaker.

Also it seems that when I ask some questions they seem to get edited? In the above post I asked why would one do a radiator pressure test on a radiator that is not leaking? Makes no sense? Everyone knows if the radiator is leaking eventually the engine will run hot but even then you just fix or replace the radiator, pressure test?

Also if the engine has low compression? This will not cause overheating.

I put the question back in.

JR

[Guest_3]

Also it seems that when I ask some questions they seem to get edited? By who ??. Only a mod or you can edit your posts.

It will say who did the edit in your post.

It wasn't me. :)

I guess we do things different out here at chasing problems.

Without being there, Nobody really knows whats wrong with it.

[ykdavid]

did the burp thing and now waiting for a nicer day to test it.

[jrryan]

By who ??. Only a mod or you can edit your posts.

It will say who did the edit in your post.

It wasn't me. :)

I guess we do things different out here at chasing problems.

Without being there, Nobody really knows whats wrong with it.


It wasn't me. :)


Didn't say it was?

I guess we do things different out here at chasing problems.


Very different indeed? Man never said or implied it was leaking, pressure tests are for a leaking radiator, compression tests are for engine problems, has nothing to do with it running hot.


Without being there, Nobody really knows what's wrong with i

Don't need to be there unless his information is wrong. By his information he does not have a blown head gasket or a leaking radiator. Air even the slightest amount is a killer on this engine. Thermostat isn't closed or it would heat up in less than 5 minutes.

He hasn't mentioned if he has checked to see if the coolant is circulating. If it is then it's just plain old air......but if he doesn't have coolant circulation, I'll see if the way people check out there know what the problem is? http://www.scootdawg.net/images/icons/duh.gif

JR

[Guest_3]

when i pulled away "I noticed a lot of smoke coming form the muffler" I thought to myself that "if it continued I'd stop" but shortly after it stopped. So I rode on.
That is the sign of a blown head gasket = Steam looking like smoke.

Next I started losing power "It didn't shut off like before" but it was slowly dying.It was getting HOT again.


And you still think its just air in the cooling system ? .

[jrryan]

That is the sign of a blown head gasket = Steam looking like smoke.

It was getting HOT again.


And you still think its just air in the cooling system ? .

Missed by all including me:

So I thought to check the coolant the reservoir was full but when I looked under the seat I found a hole in the plastic filler.

Loss of power = hot engine.

Steam equal coolant coming or dripping out this hole. If the radiator reservoir has a hole in it not only is it losing coolant slowly when the engine heats up but when it cools and the radiator is pulling fluid back in the radiator there is none there and it's pulling air into the system.

We all know that these systems work just like a auto system, cap expands when hot, pulls extra coolant if needed from the reservoir tank or releases it back to the tank if not needed. As it cools off it makes sure the radiator is topped off to the full amount.

Got to fix this or it's never work right.

JR

[Guest_3]

Lets all hope, that he didn't cook that motor.

[8307c4]

I feel kind of bad for breaking out the bad guy here but I look at it this way, for $700 you just took a really good course in experience so that when in the future you ever experience this kind of behavior in a more expensive vehicle (such as an automobile) you will know that you need to leave it pulled over where you first stopped and call a tow truck, because if you don't you could be looking at replacing an engine that in a car can easily cost you 7 or 8 thousand dollars, so for $700 you got away cheap.

The unfortunate part on these 250's is that, if you did fry the engine, it's going to cost you more than you paid for the vehicle itself, something the seller may or may not have known about. Chances are, if you ask me, he knew something about it but decided to sell it before he got into knowing the full extent of the problem, that's just my opinion but in fact a moot point.

Now I think the engine is all right but you need to address the problem and stop driving it in hopes that it will go away, because it won't. Your problem is likely either a stuck thermostat or possibly a blown head gasket, something along those lines is what I would be checking into.

Personally I would start by replacing the thermostat, because it's cheaper and far easier than the head gasket.
You never know, especially if the scooter still has coolant, that might be all it is.

Good luck

[Guest_3]

David, Any updates ??.

[damorg5623]

I am having a similar problem with overheating. I thought that I had burped all of the air out, engine temp. was running normal. The fan was coming on. Twice I let my scooter idle for about 30 minutes and everything was fine. Or so I thought it was until I went out on the interstate. I went only about a mile at around 70 mph. then I exited. The temp guage never went above normal. The fan was running, everything appeared fine. After about another mile on the street, I noticed the temp. guage had red lined HOT. I have NO thermostat installed, I had removed it to eliminate that as a possible problem. So there shouldn;t be anything keeping the collant from circulating. Now, when I pulled over, I noticed that my fan was NO longer coming on. I believe that there is still air in the system, and my interstate ride moved it along.
Because before when I first flushed the system, and then installed the new coolant, when I first started up the scooter, the fan didn't come on because the radiator was cold. Even though the engine was HOT, but the coolant wasn't getting circulated thru the system because of the AIR in the line. As far as the radiator was concered the collant was cool and didn't need the fan. The HOT coolant wasn't being circulated to the radiator. However, after several burps, the fan came on and the temp guage went to normal. The problem that I am having now, is exactly as it was yesterday before I was able to get the darn thing to burp, burp, burp.
So, be sure to burp your baby really really good!

[damorg5623]

I too am having serious overheating issues with my MC-54-250 Roketa. This has been going on for 8 months now. I have already posted several threads about it. It has been a long story but I will not start at the beginning. I will just start here...
I can go about 4-5 miles and then it starts to overheat. SOMEHOW... Air keeps getting back into the system. I have burped, & burped, & burped, & burped, & burped this scooter and STILL there is air in the cooloing system. After every good burping session, I can actually go around 25 miles before it starts to overheat. I received a New Fan, Thermostat, and Both Temp Sensors from Roketa. I only had to pay shipping charges. Still did not fix this problem though. I DO NOT have any oil in my anti-freeze, nor do I have any anti-freeze in my oil. I was told that this was a sure sign of a blown/bad head gasket. I was told to try and spray ether (starting fluid) around the cylinder head to see if the idle increased. It DID NOT. I was a little bit afraid to spray too much, for fear of an explosion caused by heat around the exhaust.
I honestly DO NOT know where, or how air keeps getting back in to this cooling system. Unless it is being sucked in thru the head gasket.
I am at a loss here. Like I said, this has been going on for 8 months now. I have gone thru 2 gallons of coolant trying to keep burping the air out. There is NO way that all of this air is still coming from my coolant change.
By the way... I am an expert now at doing JR's burping method.
Also... after I have gotten ALL of the air out of the system, and filled both the overflow tank and the radiator with the proper coolant levels, while I am riding the coolant is being burped back into the overflow from the radiator. This causes the coolant level in the radiator to get too low and that's when the overheating starts.
I will stop my ride and return home before it gets too hot.
Two, even as much as 3 days later, when I start to go for another ride, of course I check the coolant level in the radiator first, and there is STILL a great deal of pressure inside of the radiator/cooling system.
Still, 3 days later, and the pressure is so great that it spews out some of the COLD coolant. I then go thru the burping process all over again. This is killing me and my wallet. I want to take a nice long ride soooo bad, and I can't.
I can just make it to the necessary places like Walmart, the doctors office, gas station etc... As long as I don't go more then 7-8 miles from home, and that's being generous, I'm fine. But what's fun about that.
Please, somebody HELP!
I did read that there was a kit that I could purchase from the automotive store for about $45.00 that would tell me whether or not there were any exhaust gases in the radiator. I was also told that I could use a sniffer from an emissions testing/repair place to sniff out any exhaust gases in the radiator. This would supposedly tell me for sure whether or not I had a head gasket leak. I'm guessing one of those should be my next move, huh?
If anybody has any other thoughts, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE call me...
Dan @ 443-653-1674

[bandito2]

GOOD GRIEF! Some of you guys are tough as hell because I wouldn't put up with
these relentless headache inducing POS problem (often times clone) scoots. If it
were me, (but it aint, so it is JMO) I'd cut my losses and unload the bike. You're
loosing on it in more ways than one anyway as it is it so it wouldn't matter much
to take a loss when you do sell it. Of course you'd need to make a disclosure on
the overheating or whatever issue.

I don't mean to make you feel bad but I can't be doing any worse for you than what
your bike is doing to you already. (and for as long as you continue to let it be a
problem to you.)

My advice, because this thing is taking the joy out of your scootering experience is:
Be done with it and get a more reliable bike. (not a clone)
FWIW