List of manual geared scooters

[prodigit]

Hi,
Please help me fill out a list of manual geared scooters.
I've looked at some of the vespa's, but most of them now are sold with a cvt.
I don't want to tread on motorcycle ground, so anything looking like a CBR or ninja, even if it's chinese, or looking like a cruiser is considered a motorcycle.

I'm actually surprised about the low amount of manual geared scooters for sale nowadays!
Most of the time, you'd have to be lucky to find a dealer with new 2012 models in stock, much more for 2011 or 2010 models. (I have the feeling manual geared scooters are becoming extinct)

[scootnwinn]

Yep they are here's the list that I know

Stella
That's it unless you count Stella

[inuyasha]

Hi
Theres also the Sym Symba 100 cc engine with a 4 speed semi automatic transmission
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJuMuZF4YGI
http://alliancepowersports.com/models/Symba.html
And the scoots from the California scooter company 150 cc engine with a 5 speed manual transmission
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIV4zdKjX7w&feature=player_embedded#!
http://californiascooterco.com/
Take care and ride safely dear friend
Yours Hank

[erictheviking666]

Can't speak for all states but in Florida, if it has more than one speed and has to be shifted it is NOT a Scooter, no matter what it looks like or the engine size. This may be true in other states as well causing it to be classified as a motorcycle, which means you have to take the course and get your certification. This is probably why it is so hard to find anything that has multiple speeds.

[inuyasha]

Can't speak for all states but in Florida, if it has more than one speed and has to be shifted it is NOT a Scooter, no matter what it looks like or the engine size. This may be true in other states as well causing it to be classified as a motorcycle, which means you have to take the course and get your certification. This is probably why it is so hard to find anything that has multiple speeds.
Hi
Luckily for me theres no such restrictions in my home state of CT, the only thing they are concerned about is the BHP of the scoot in question
http://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=810&q=430480
And both of the scoots i posted would need to be registered as mototcycles here due to the size of thier engines not for transmission choice
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank

[erictheviking666]

Hi
Luckily for me theres no such restrictions in my home state of CT, the only thing they are concerned about is the BHP of the scoot in question
http://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=810&q=430480
And both of the scoots i posted would need to be registered as mototcycles here due to the size of thier engines not for transmission choice
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank


Oh yes I see both are 100cc's or better. I was just saying that is the reason there are so few manual trans Scooter's available here in the states. I guess most people would just get a MC, but I'm like you I don't want a MC, I like Scooters.

[inuyasha]

Oh yes I see both are 100cc's or better. I was just saying that is the reason there are so few manual trans Scooter's available here in the states. I guess most people would just get a MC, but I'm like you I don't want a MC, I like Scooters.
Hi
If it has 2 wheels im in love
I have many motorbikes in all shapes and sizes ranging in size from this
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6038/6248443468_c3c92cccca_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6248443468/)
motor bike8 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6248443468/) by inuyasha50 (http://www.flickr.com/people/67070952@N06/), on Flickr
To this
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6119/6245493702_9351f0f50b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6245493702/)
indian (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6245493702/) by inuyasha50 (http://www.flickr.com/people/67070952@N06/), on Flickr
And im building a mini chopper at present got the frame fabricated and welded up and am now waiting on the engine and transmission to finish her up
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7179/6903583371_081afb8c20_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6903583371/)
Project 039 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6903583371/) by inuyasha50 (http://www.flickr.com/people/67070952@N06/), on Flickr
take care and ride safely
Yours Hank

[prodigit]

Can't speak for all states but in Florida, if it has more than one speed and has to be shifted it is NOT a Scooter, no matter what it looks like or the engine size. This may be true in other states as well causing it to be classified as a motorcycle, which means you have to take the course and get your certification. This is probably why it is so hard to find anything that has multiple speeds.

In most of the USA if the top speed is >30MPH (>40MPH in some states like FL), the cc's are more than 50cc, you need a motorcycle endorsement.
Gears matter very little in many places; although they make very little sense on bikes going below 35MPH.

[duosport]

The Honda Passport is only 70cc has a scooter step through design but has foot pegs. It is a semi automatic three speed with a shift pedal but no clutch. Even the chain for the drive is in a housing. With all of these scooter like qualities it is still considered a motorcycle.

http://imageshack.us/a/img844/7084/passport001.jpg


Really none of it has to do with engine size because scooters certainly are common with 250cc engines. The main thing as far as I know is that scooter have no user controlled gear shifting. The second factor is styling specifically the step through design. Its not to say that there are not scooters disguised to look like motorcycles.

[inuyasha]

The Honda Passport is only 70cc has a scooter step through design but has foot pegs. It is a semi automatic three speed with a shift pedal but no clutch. Even the chain for the drive is in a housing. With all of these scooter like qualities it is still considered a motorcycle.

http://imageshack.us/a/img844/7084/passport001.jpg


Really none of it has to do with engine size because scooters certainly are common with 250cc engines. The main thing as far as I know is that scooter have no user controlled gear shifting. The second factor is styling specifically the step through design. Its not to say that there are not scooters disguised to look like motorcycles.
Hi
I dont agree with that statement as most of the very first scooters manufactered where equiped with manual transmissions as well as cvts
In fact The United States Department of Transportation defines a scooter as a motorcycle that has a platform for the operator's feet or has integrated footrests, and has a step-through architecture.
I do agree about the step thorough design and also their center of gravity and handling is very different from a motorcycle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter_(motorcycle)#Description
To me they are all just simply motorbikes with very different riding characteristics
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank

[duosport]

Well if one is going to get very technical all scooters are motorcycles.

[inuyasha]

Well if one is going to get very technical all scooters are motorcycles.
Hi
I wasnt trying to get all technical just stating a fact and trying to make a point that scooters can have a manual transmission and still be considered a scooter
BTW i do love to shift gears as well as twist and go
And i wish more scoots where manufactured with manual transmissions today to give us all more options when deciding on a new scoot
Take care and rider safely
Yours Hank

[duosport]

Hi
I wasnt trying to get all technical just stating a fact and trying to make a point that scooters can have a manual transmission and still be considered a scooter
BTW i do love to shift gears as well as twist and go
And i wish more scoots where manufactured with manual transmissions today to give us all more options when deciding on a new scoot
Take care and rider safely
Yours Hank

Well I think the fact is you are correct. It is the step through design that is the predominent feature of what defines a scooter. Probably more accurately it would probably be the foot platform detail that labels it a scooter. Smaller wheels is also part of it.

[inuyasha]

Well I think the fact is you are correct. It is the step through design that is the predominent feature of what defines a scooter. Probably more accurately it would probably be the foot platform detail that labels it a scooter. Smaller wheels is also part of it.
Hi
Yes indeed you sit upon a scoot while you straddle a motorcycle
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank

[duosport]

So how about this Honda Passport then? One sits on this vehicle rather than straddle.

http://imageshack.us/a/img844/7084/passport001.jpg

[inuyasha]

So how about this Honda Passport then? One sits on this vehicle rather than straddle.

http://imageshack.us/a/img844/7084/passport001.jpg
Hi
I consider it a scoot and a very beautiful and highly prized one at that
Would absolutely love to have one myself
Take care and ride safely dear friend
Yours hank

[duosport]

But the Passport has a frame mounted engine and no floorboard but rather has foot pegs. I believe it is considered a motorcycle. But we do agree they are cool.

[inuyasha]

But the Passport has a frame mounted engine and no floorbord but rather has foot pegs. I believe it is considered a motorcycle. But we do agree they are cool.
Hi
As i said in my first post in this thread i consider them all as motorbikes and love them all
Doesnt matter to me one bit what others may label them as whats in a name anyways?
Take care and ride safely dear friend
Yours Hank

[duosport]

Hi
As i said in my first post in this thread i consider them all as motorbikes and love them all
Doesnt matter to me one bit what others may label them as whats in a name anyways?
Take care and ride safely dear friend
Yours Hank

Well sure as I do. But the OP wants to name scooters with gears so defining what is and is not a scooter is neccessary in order to add to the list. How about the Honda Express? I define it as a "no ped" That is a moped without pedals. The Express II has a two speed automatic transmission.

Scooter?


http://imageshack.us/a/img14/2151/nc5083big.jpg

[inuyasha]

Well sure as I do. But the OP wants to name scooters with gears so defining what is and is not a scooter is neccessary in order to add to the list. How about the Honda Express? I define it as a "no ped" That is a moped without pedals. The Express II has a two speed automatic transmission.

Scooter?


http://imageshack.us/a/img14/2151/nc5083big.jpg
Hi
Thats a tough call to make
I like your term No ped for that one as it really doesnt have a step through frame
It reminds me of some of tomos models like the steetmate streetmate r and the LX to name a few which incorporate various different styles in one bike
Take care and ride safely dear friend
Yours Hank

[prodigit]

The fact that some older vespa models had manual gears, proves that scooters can have manual gears.

Although I probably prefer a motorcycle style of gear mechanism, but one on the handlebars is not bad either.

Just to get away from the oh-so-common CVT.
I've seen the performance of this bike:
http://ifutureweb.com/superior/images/SN250MC-B-2.jpg
and athough the bike was based on the CF MOTO 244cc engine (or I could be wrong, the website calls it a 227cc engine), with 5 manual gears, it completely blew the BMS TXB 260 (with fuel injection) and CVT, out of the water; ( in acceleration that is; in top speed, the BMS was faster); despite the BMS having a better engine (based on the Linhai 256cc and fuel injection).

BTW, there's no better example of a scooter, than the Suzuki Burgman. It's a scooter, despite of having some small part of the engine (cylinder) inbetween the legs (has a horizontal placed cylinder).
The BMS260 is based on that Burgman.
http://ifutureweb.com/superior/images/BMS260SC-TBX-3.jpg

[medman1952]

I think that the early scooters all had either one speed or a manual transmission. Also common with all early scooters is small wheels, that is to me the main thing that is different in a scooter and a motorcycle. I know a lot of people that think I am crazy when I say that though.

In California, the States calls them all motorcycles if they are over 49cc.

[duosport]

I think that the early scooters all had either one speed or a manual transmission. Also common with all early scooters is small wheels, that is to me the main thing that is different in a scooter and a motorcycle. I know a lot of people that think I am crazy when I say that though.

In California, the States calls them all motorcycles if they are over 49cc.

I kind of think how the states define it is not relevent to it because California for example would call a 150 scooter a motorcycle when clearly we would define it as a scooter. The states are just trying to figure out how to make money and regulate.

Seems there are several subdivisions of small scooter and "scooter like" bikes that have some sort of gearing, that the OP might be interested in. There are several bikes in the "no ped" catagory that fill this bill. These are moped styled bikes without the pedals and I know there is a chinese no ped with a chain drive and gearing that was imported by Wildfire and I think is currently still around.

[WarrenS]

For licensing purposes anything over 50cc and 30 or so mph are motorcycles. Motor placement is one more way to tell a scooter from a cycle. Scooters, including the Burgman have the engine under the seat. Cycles have the motor between your knees or legs. This distinction makes the Passport a cycle, as well as the chain drive and large wheels. I had an Express and it was called a no-ped because it was designed to meet the moped designation but without pedals. This evolved into the scooters being classed as mopeds if they met the requirements.

[duosport]

For example here is a 110cc no ped available with a 4 speed transmission. Also available in a 49cc.

http://imageshack.us/a/img28/5798/wf110mi.jpg

[duosport]

For licensing purposes anything over 50cc and 30 or so mph are motorcycles. ..

In reality all things including 50cc are motorcycles. A scooter is a sub class of motorcycle. I think the state definitions are not correct because there are tons of 150cc scooters out there that you and everybody else will definitely call a scooter. States just want to regulate for the purpose of making money. 50cc scooters and mopeds are a hindererance to their money making schemes and they are doing their darnedest to get their greedy mitts on those too.

The original poster might give more info about how many CC's they would like thier "scooter" to be. That might help us help them.

[inuyasha]

For licensing purposes anything over 50cc and 30 or so mph are motorcycles.
Hi Warren
Thats not the case in my home state we go by BHP not the displacement size of the engine and have no speed restrictions on 50 cc machines as well
and there may be others as well im sure so that can change depending on the state you live in
My title that came with both my Puma and Aprilia do list them as motorcycles though
So its a grey area, thats why when talking to the general public i call them motorbikes no matter the size or style
Its only when im here or in the company of fellow riders such as the members here that i try to get into specifics
Take care and ride safely dear friend
Yours Hank

[prodigit]

For licensing purposes anything over 50cc and 30 or so mph are motorcycles. Motor placement is one more way to tell a scooter from a cycle. Scooters, including the Burgman have the engine under the seat. Cycles have the motor between your knees or legs. This distinction makes the Passport a cycle, as well as the chain drive and large wheels. I had an Express and it was called a no-ped because it was designed to meet the moped designation but without pedals. This evolved into the scooters being classed as mopeds if they met the requirements.

The way I see it, for anything above 50cc you need a Motorcycle Endorsement, however the 2 wheeler not necessarily is a motorcycle.

We used to have a lot of these (what we call scooters) in Belgium in the eighties and nineties:
http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/3acnj.jebn4/v/vspfiles/photos/SR125MC-8A-2.jpg?1323407794
We called it a DAX, because above is based on the first european company DAX to release bikes with little wheels, and minimalistic looks.
They usually would come in 50cc 75cc, 100cc, or 125cc. Occasionally someone would have a 150cc, but not in the nineties.
We'd call it a scooter, eventhough many websites call this a motorcycle.

I understand there's a difference between legally defining the thing, and what the thing is in the street language.

In the nineties, usually anything with a small engine (sub 150cc) was called a scooter.
Then they started having Honda CBR 125 and 150cc, which where seen as a motorcycle. Heck, they even had a 50cc CBR clone; which was also seen as a motorcycle.
And then, in the 2000's when Suzuki got their burgmans, with 400, and 650cc, it's seen as a scooter.
So I suppose scooter had more to do with layout than cc's, or power.

Fact that those machines just happened, and never got universally defined, causes many to use different naming for the same bike.

On the motorcycle forum, some older gents, call their 250cc motorcycles, scoots, because it's nothing compared to a 650cc, or a 2200cc motorcycle.

[duosport]

I think most people here would call that a mini bike or a mini trail bike.

[prodigit]

yeah, it's just a bit larger than a pocket bike, which is yet another category of motorcycle.

[erictheviking666]

For example here is a 110cc no ped available with a 4 speed transmission. Also available in a 49cc.

http://imageshack.us/a/img28/5798/wf110mi.jpg


That is definitely what I would call a small displacement motorcycle. They are everywhere is Asia but kinda rare here in the states.




Hi Warren
Thats not the case in my home state we go by BHP not the displacement size of the engine and have no speed restrictions on 50 cc machines as well
and there may be others as well im sure so that can change depending on the state you live in
My title that came with both my Puma and Aprilia do list them as motorcycles though
So its a grey area, thats why when talking to the general public i call them motorbikes no matter the size or style
Its only when im here or in the company of fellow riders such as the members here that i try to get into specifics
Take care and ride safely dear friend
Yours Hank

Here in Florida it's by engine size and/or speed. Anything over 50cc's is a motorcycle by their definition no matter if it has pedals (like a true moped) or manual shift. But also once you go over 30mph or the BHP (not sure what that is currently) they consider it a motorcycle as well, no matter the displacement or transmission.

[WarrenS]

I have an electric scooter with the motor in the middle of the rear wheel. This stretches the definition of motor location. When I went to register it they kept asking how many cc's. I tell them it is electric and doesn't have any cc's. I told them it has to be registered as a motorcycle as it has a top speed of 60mph. It is registered as a motorcycle but looks like a scooter.

Sometimes Harley riders call their bikes scooters. We're just one big happy family of riders.

[duosport]

That is definitely what I would call a small displacement motorcycle. They are everywhere is Asia but kinda rare here in the states..




I agree it is a small displacement motorcycle. For my money it is the foot pegs that makes it a bike rather than a scooter. Scooters have a floor board.

[inuyasha]

Hi
So what would you consider calling my daughters revival st?
Has a 70 cc engine with 17 inch wheel and tires, 2 speed transmission with chain drive and pedals
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6152/6266973806_4c23d79f5a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6266973806/)
TomosRevival-L (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6266973806/) by inuyasha50 (http://www.flickr.com/people/67070952@N06/), on Flickr
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank

[prodigit]

That is definitely what I would call a small displacement motorcycle. They are everywhere is Asia but kinda rare here in the states.


Here in Florida it's by engine size and/or speed. Anything over 50cc's is a motorcycle by their definition no matter if it has pedals (like a true moped) or manual shift.

Like I said before,
That is not true.
You need a motorcycle endorsement for anything above 50cc's, however that does not make those bikes motorcycles.

[duosport]

Hi
So what would you consider calling my daughters revival st?
Has a 70 cc engine with 17 inch wheel and tires, 2 speed transmission with chain drive and pedals
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6152/6266973806_4c23d79f5a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6266973806/)
TomosRevival-L (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6266973806/) by inuyasha50 (http://www.flickr.com/people/67070952@N06/), on Flickr
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank
That is about as mixed up as it gets. It is hard to ignore the fact that it has pedals so how could one not call it a moped?

[prodigit]

Hi
So what would you consider calling my daughters revival st?
Has a 70 cc engine with 17 inch wheel and tires, 2 speed transmission with chain drive and pedals
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6152/6266973806_4c23d79f5a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6266973806/)
TomosRevival-L (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6266973806/) by inuyasha50 (http://www.flickr.com/people/67070952@N06/), on Flickr
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank

Although it's one gray area bike, I'd call it a motorcycle.... :D

As far as electric scooters, if they go less than 20MPH (30MPH in some states), and have less than 1BHP (750W) it is considered a moped, not a scooter nor motorcycle.
Yours would most likely fall into the category of a motorcycle; however, that's a gray area within a gray area.
If there's no cc's, then they look at BHP.
For a 3000W motor, it is rated a 4BHP bike, or compares to an 8BHP 4 stroke engine; which would be close to the performance of a 150cc engine.
a 4000W engine compares to a 200cc engine. and 5000W to a 250cc

[duosport]

...As far as electric scooters, if they go less than 20MPH (30MPH in some states), and have less than 1BHP (750W) it is considered a moped, not a scooter nor motorcycle.
Yours would most likely fall into the category of a motorcycle; however, that's a gray area within a gray area.
If there's no cc's, then they look at BHP.
For a 3000W motor, it is rated a 4BHP bike, or compares to an 8BHP 4 stroke engine; which would be close to the performance of a 150cc engine.
a 4000W engine compares to a 200cc engine. and 5000W to a 250cc Frankly that is made up state by state stuff. If a 2 wheeler has a floor board and a 49cc engine...its a scooter. The states incorrectly use the term "moped".

[prodigit]

Just FYI, there are scoots with floorboards, but pedals as well. They fall under the category of mopeds (if their top speed is below 20-30MPH, and they have less than 2BHP).

[duosport]

Just FYI, there are scoots with floorboards, but pedals as well. They fall under the category of mopeds (if their top speed is below 20-30MPH, and they have less than 2BHP).

Nothing is true on the internet unless there is a photo. :)

[WarrenS]

Hi
So what would you consider calling my daughters revival st?
Has a 70 cc engine with 17 inch wheel and tires, 2 speed transmission with chain drive and pedals
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6152/6266973806_4c23d79f5a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6266973806/)
TomosRevival-L (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6266973806/) by inuyasha50 (http://www.flickr.com/people/67070952@N06/), on Flickr
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank

That is in a class by itself. Every rule has exceptions.

[duosport]

It has pedals. Does that not automatically make it a moped? Motor - Pedal = Moped right?

The weird Tomos example has some styling details that make it look like motorcycle or a scooter but at the heart of it is a moped drive train. For example: if you remove the cruiser rear fender crash bar and gas tank and remove the "scooter" seat, are we not left with a moped?

[jeepsteve92xj]

I'd like a shifty scooter, at least to try. I know motorcycle dudes who look down on scooters as if "you only get a scooter if you want an automatic" but thats not true, and there have been a few automatic motorcycles too.

In June 2012, at Amerivespa in Lake Geneva, WI, I saw Lambrettas and Stellas and Vespas that were shifty. I didn't get to ride one.


Hows this for a shifty?
http://traveling250.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/wpid-20120830_192945.jpg?w=640
Cushman with 450 Honda I believe.


I was thinking about building one myself with maybe a Ninja 250 motor in my Xingyue.
Then I came across this
http://www.hostingphpbb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=599&mforum=seriessix&sid=7c27f6fbb803825b39655256894bf3c3
a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkwLcZv71OE

I donno how many ponies in an RD350 2T, but then WHO CARES!

[duosport]

If the goal is to go really fast then why not buy a motorcycle? To each his own of course but I am not interested in going 60 mph on small scooter wheels.

[inuyasha]

I'd like a shifty scooter, at least to try. I know motorcycle dudes who look down on scooters as if "you only get a scooter if you want an automatic" but thats not true, and there have been a few automatic motorcycles too.

In June 2012, at Amerivespa in Lake Geneva, WI, I saw Lambrettas and Stellas and Vespas that were shifty. I didn't get to ride one.


Hows this for a shifty?
http://traveling250.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/wpid-20120830_192945.jpg?w=640
Cushman with 450 Honda I believe.


I was thinking about building one myself with maybe a Ninja 250 motor in my Xingyue.
Then I came across this
http://www.hostingphpbb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=599&mforum=seriessix&sid=7c27f6fbb803825b39655256894bf3c3
a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkwLcZv71OE

I donno how many ponies in an RD350 2T, but then WHO CARES!
Hi
Try this one on for size
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkVtCxkPDmo
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank

[inuyasha]

If the goal is to go really fast then why not buy a motorcycle? To each his own of course but I am not interested in going 60 mph on small scooter wheels.
Hi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or94QCS-PzM&list=FLjOsbI6xw6xgbKvLIx6GEeQ&index=715
And ive hit a high of 63 mph on my Aprilia Sr 50 R Factory and at those speeds she rock steady
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8370/8451485972_c37e22a97c_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/8451485972/)
Sr 50 top speed (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/8451485972/) by inuyasha50 (http://www.flickr.com/people/67070952@N06/), on Flickr
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank

[jeepsteve92xj]

A 125cc scooter, no peddles, and it is a shifty.
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-reviews/sachs-madass-125/momos-sachs-madass-125-left-side.jpg

Review
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-reviews/sachs-madass-125/

[inuyasha]

A 125cc scooter, no peddles, and it is a shifty.
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-reviews/sachs-madass-125/momos-sachs-madass-125-left-side.jpg

Review
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-reviews/sachs-madass-125/
Hi
To me the Madass is not a scoot but a small motorcycle
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6168/6251414728_b1c7aa2661_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6251414728/)
Sachs-MadAss-125-4 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6251414728/) by inuyasha50 (http://www.flickr.com/people/67070952@N06/), on Flickr
They are one of my fav motorbikes
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank

[jeepsteve92xj]

If the goal is to go really fast then why not buy a motorcycle? To each his own of course but I am not interested in going 60 mph on small scooter wheels.


My Xingyue has 16" wheels, nice and stable. Just 8hp.
The Suzuki Sixteen and the Honda SH150i are very similar, but of course Japanese, with twice the HP and a much more reliable 80mpg or better

The Stella is rated up to 140mpg if your really nice to it. But small wheels.

I'd like to get an easy 65mph, rather than WOT to hold just over 50mph. Working on it.

[jeepsteve92xj]

The defining lines are blurry. With peddles = moped, small motor or not.

the states mostly require MC license for 50cc and up.
In other countries, MC license is on a graduated system, beginning with maybe a 250 for a starter bike for some amount of time and / or distance, then a 350 or 400...
In France I was reading they have electronic governors for things like 1200cc Halreys when the operator isnt yet qualified for that much power. The magic box limits the power until they graduate to the next level, then whoever it is that handles the box will change the settings. The box is supposed to be tamper proof.
A guy in my MC safety class had never ever been on any motorcycle before, but decoded to pop into the local 'Bussa dealer and buy one. nothing like Jumping onto 180hp with zero experience. I think graduated licensing is a good idea.

Another nice thing on the scooters is that I can stop at the store and pick up a 25bl bag of kitty litter and carry it on the floor between my feet. On a motorcycle, not so easy without a box or big saddle bags.

[duosport]

My Xingyue has 16" wheels, nice and stable. Just 8hp.
The Suzuki Sixteen and the Honda SH150i are very similar, but of course Japanese, with twice the HP and a much more reliable 80mpg or better

The Stella is rated up to 140mpg if your really nice to it. But small wheels.

I'd like to get an easy 65mph, rather than WOT to hold just over 50mph. Working on it.

I think at higher speeds the 16" wheels are a very good thing.

[jeepsteve92xj]

For shore! My top speed run down a looooooong hill with a still tail wind got me 63MPH GPS, without a shake or anything sketchy. I was at nearly 8000RPM.

I chose the Xingyue for a couple reasons - 16" wheels, and it had already been registered in WI, so I wasn't going to have any problems. WI roads are rough. On a city ride back in August, I felt like I was getting beat up, so I can imagine how the small wheel scooters were feeling.

[WarrenS]

When all else fails I just look at it and call it as I see it. The one with pedals is a moped although a very decked out one. What the state licenses them as is set by their own rules. One time I wanted to get an electric motor to power a bicycle. I asked if it would be classed as a moped and was told no. It would be a motor powered bicycle. I would have to have it individually inspected and they would decide if it was road worthy or not. I gave up.

[prodigit]

It has pedals. Does that not automatically make it a moped? Motor - Pedal = Moped right?


Not if it goes faster than 20/30MPH, or has more than 2BHP, or more than 49cc.

[prodigit]

Hi
To me the Madass is not a scoot but a small motorcycle


+1;
It's in line with the first 3 or 5 chinese DAX clones on this page (minus the Camino clone (16in wheels) on number four):
http://www.superiorpowersports.com/category_s/136.htm

[duosport]

Not if it goes faster than 20/30MPH, or has more than 2BHP, or more than 49cc.

See the states have screwed up these terms. Some states are calling all 2 wheeled vehicles that have 49cc engines, a mopeds. It is incorrect. Just because the states have messed up their terminology is no reason for logical people to follow suit.

[inuyasha]

Hi
I got a good one for you guys
What would you call my Schwinn?, she has a Grubee 66/80 cc slant angle fire 2t engine 38 tooth main gear with a top speed of 40 mph she has a lttle more topend but im not very comfortable going any faster until i hook up the disc brake system, thats the next upgrade in the wings
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6038/6248443468_c3c92cccca_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6248443468/)
motor bike8 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67070952@N06/6248443468/) by inuyasha50 (http://www.flickr.com/people/67070952@N06/), on Flickr
Take care asnd ride safely
Yours Hank

[duosport]

Its a bicycle with an engine.

[inuyasha]

Its a bicycle with an engine.
Hi
Ok so what do you feel these should be called
http://www.motorcycle.com/events/the-first-motorcycle-45982.html
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank

[duosport]

Hi
Ok so what do you feel these should be called
http://www.motorcycle.com/events/the-first-motorcycle-45982.html
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank

Well like I said early on. All of what we are talking about are actually motorcycles. Every single one. The other classifications we are assigning are sub catagories of motorcycles. The early motorcycles are actually motorized bicycles on the order of your motorized bicycle.

[WarrenS]

Hi
Ok so what do you feel these should be called
http://www.motorcycle.com/events/the-first-motorcycle-45982.html
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank

The early motorcycles were nothing more than motorized bicycles. Your Schwinn should be called a motor bike similar to the Whizzer. The one that fooled me was the Mustang. It had small wheels like a scooter but was a motorcycle with engine in the proper place and gears. I read that they raced it on dirt track against the Harley dirt tracker and it easily beat the Harley. The AMA racing committee made a rule that dirt trackers had to have a minimum wheel size of 16 inches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustang_(motorcycle)

[inuyasha]

The early motorcycles were nothing more than motorized bicycles. Your Schwinn should be called a motor bike similar to the Whizzer. The one that fooled me was the Mustang. It had small wheels like a scooter but was a motorcycle with engine in the proper place and gears. I read that they raced it on dirt track against the Harley dirt tracker and it easily beat the Harley. The AMA racing committee made a rule that dirt trackers had to have a minimum wheel size of 16 inches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustang_(motorcycle)
Hi Warren
Aye thats what i consider my schwinn to be a "motorbike"
And i love the Mustang
http://www.mmcoa.org/
One day im going to get one of them or maybe even one of their modern counterpart's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIV4zdKjX7w
http://californiascooterco.com/
Take care and ride safely dear friend
Yours Hank

[prodigit]

See the states have screwed up these terms. Some states are calling all 2 wheeled vehicles that have 49cc engines, a mopeds. It is incorrect. Just because the states have messed up their terminology is no reason for logical people to follow suit.

A moped is a motor assisted pedal bicycle.
All the state did was limit the power output of the motor to 2BHP for gasoline 4strokes, and 1BHP for electric motors.
All other requirements are to have working pedals, and a speed no greater than 20/30MPH, because mopeds are allowed to go on bicycle lanes, and in some cases on the sidewalks (which depends from place to place).

Any old time scooter with pedals was a moped, because they ran very inefficient. Modern 49cc engines are optimized, and have an output of 3+ BHP, and are much more reliable; that's why they took the pedals off them. You don't see scooters with pedals anymore, because they can't be registered as a moped anyway, even if they did have pedals, because their output is too high.

Mopeds also don't have a VIN number, and don't need a tag. Scooters do.

[rustyb]

I agree with the suggestion that scoots, for the most part, are step-thru design. However, I've always considered the Cushman Eagle a SCOOT, not a motorcycle. Also, I own a CSC (California Scooter Company) product that is not a scoot in design and yet, in size, performance, it definitely is more akin to the scoot world than motorcycle for sure. Years ago, and some of us seniors of today, call all of our two wheelers "scoots."

[inuyasha]

I agree with the suggestion that scoots, for the most part, are step-thru design. However, I've always considered the Cushman Eagle a SCOOT, not a motorcycle. Also, I own a CSC (California Scooter Company) product that is not a scoot in design and yet, in size, performance, it definitely is more akin to the scoot world than motorcycle for sure. Years ago, and some of us seniors of today, call all of our two wheelers "scoots."
Hi
Welcome aboard
Pleased to meet you
Any chance of posting some photos of your california scooter the other members and i would dearly love to see her
And i agree with you in my opinion Cushmans are scoots and mighty fine ones at that
http://www.hobbytech.com/
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank

[WarrenS]

While the Cushman Eagle was designed to look somewhat like a motorcycle, I think the reason it remained known as a scooter is that Cushman was a scooter company.

[mopedjay]

the best manual shift scooter ever made the Jawa Pionyr 50 20
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3528/3862907498_62412f5fbd_b.jpg

[Irish]

I have an electric scooter with the motor in the middle of the rear wheel. This stretches the definition of motor location. When I went to register it they kept asking how many cc's. I tell them it is electric and doesn't have any cc's. I told them it has to be registered as a motorcycle as it has a top speed of 60mph. It is registered as a motorcycle but looks like a scooter.

Sometimes Harley riders call their bikes scooters. We're just one big happy family of riders.

In N.H. , everyone that I knew that had a motorcycle called it a "scooter "! I stated this in another thread. I don't know what the younger riders refer to their rides as. I'm referring to the "old time" riders!:nuts::yay: Irish